pajsh
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:15 PM |
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Pinto Did Not Run :-(
Was hoping today would be a big day with my 2.0l rebuild finally being ready to run.
Built up to a big moment this afternoon but just would not go.
I'm getting a spark on all 4 plugs, checked the timing and the plugs have fuel on them but can't seem to get it to go.
Starter motor is really struggling to turn it over like the battery is flat.
It's a total rebuild with (untried) dellorto 40's and a pretty wild Kent RL21 cam. The 1.6 ran OK with the megajolt so i don't think
it's that but I don't have a laptop so can't check it.
Charging the battery tonight but not hoping for much tomorrow. Really not sure what to do next other than call for help.
Still tomorrow is another day.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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CRAIGR
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:23 PM |
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When i rebuilt the pinto in my rs2000 with rl31 cam and twin 48's etc i ended up taking one spark plug out because it would just not turn over
quick enough.
I let it fire and run for a couple of seconds a few times and then put the plug back in, was fine after that even though the starter still struggled a
bit.
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JeffHs
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:26 PM |
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Starting Pinto
Suggestions
Recheck your cam timing
Recheck your ignition timing - make sure they are not 180 degrees out.
Spin it with the plugs out - is it as fast as you expect - if not have you got something tight in there?
Try two batteries connected with jump leads.
If it's too tight you've got 2 choices - strip & rectify or drag it behind something in 2nd gear until it starts!
Fingers crossed!
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nitram38
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:27 PM |
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When I rebuilt my pinto (in the 80's) I had to tow start the car.
The other option is to double up (jump) your battery.
If you really get stuck then 24v the starter motor, but this is a risk as you may damage the starter.
I had to do this a couple of times and the engine only really bedded in after about 500 miles.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 08:38 PM |
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Start with the simple things first
Are your sure the spark timing isn't 180 degrees out ie no 4 is sparking when no1 should.
or the spark timing hasn't too much advance -- this would explain the reluctance to turn over.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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richard
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 09:08 PM |
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Does it turn over faster with the ignition disconneced, such as the coil disconnected, then slow down a lot when you have it all reconnected. if it
does this is a sure sign that it is a problem with the timming and also that it is ulikely to be anything tight ? Silly question time I take it you
have lined up the dot on the cam pulley sprocket.
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Dickyboy
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 09:15 PM |
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Battery may be charged OK, is your earth circuit up to it? check the earth lead is not getting hot.
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iscmatt
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 09:21 PM |
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i had troubles starting my pinto, turned out the cam wasn't lined up properly with the pulley wheel on the outside so it looked to be correctly
timed on the surface where in fact it was completely out.
Just another option for you to consider
ps - when this was sorted the car started first time!
Hope this comes of some help
Matt
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pajsh
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 11:17 PM |
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Thanks for the advice guys.
Cam timing is OK I'm pretty sure as I timed it with a dti on the head as Burton describe in their catalogue. After timing it in the cam sprocket
lined up as did the crank pulley. Will check again though.
Spark should be OK as it was with the 1.6 that came out and whilst I've resoldered the coil,VR and TPS sensors I was really careful to only
disconnect one wire at a time. I am gettng a spark with a spare plug so I'm pretty sure it's not the Magajolt.
Advance is something I can't check as I don't have a laptop at the moment. I had a default map in for the 1.6 but it could have defaulted
back to the safe map or not have the correct advance to get it going.
I did think of taking one plug out to make it crank a bit easier and will test if it turns OK with all the plugs out.
The battery is on charge so I'll have another bash tomorrow.
I'm hoping it's all just too tight and is just going to need a good belt to get it going.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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caber
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| posted on 23/3/08 at 11:24 PM |
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I had a cam timing problem on my Pinto somehoy the belt had jumped the cam pulley teeth. Worked Ok after I fixed the timing but had the same prblem
turning over that you describe!
Caber
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 02:35 AM |
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Have you checked that you have GOOD earths between engine/chassis/battery.?
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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bob
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 08:51 AM |
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My money is still on the timing being 180 degs out.
You may well have No1 piston at TDC and the cam arrow in the right place but if its on the wrong stroke its 180 degs from bang.
I have been at this point along with many others, tell tale sign is the slow turn over when cranking the engine.Whip the cam belt off and give the
crank another revolution till No1 is tdc again and have another go.
[Edited on 24/3/08 by bob]
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pajsh
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bob
My money is still on the timing being 180 degs out.
You may well have No1 piston at TDC and the cam arrow in the right place but if its on the wrong stroke its 180 degs from bang.
I have been at this point along with many others, tell tale sign is the slow turn over when cranking the engine.Whip the cam belt off and give the
crank another revolution till No1 is tdc again and have another go.
[Edited on 24/3/08 by bob]
Thanks Bob but I'm not sure this will make a difference. If I just wind the crank around one turn surely it will be back at TDC again and the
relationship with the cam will still be the same. There is no dizzy so it won't change the timing of the spark.
With the Magajolt wasted spark system there is a spark every TDC so I don't think it can be on the wrong stroke? I'm not too sure but I
think that's the case.
What I can't check it the advance. Hopefully I can borrow a laptop from work tomorrow and find out a bit more. Should you have more or less
advance to get it going?
Going to have a play later when it stops snowing.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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pajsh
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 10:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Have you checked that you have GOOD earths between engine/chassis/battery.?
Will defintely check the earth.
The only one that has changed is the block strap but it's just occurred to me that the block is painted so if I have bolted it block side not
gearbox side (think I have) this may be an issue.
When I checked the spark yesterday with a spare plug it was not huge but the plug was not the same type as the only spare was off my Scirocco.
Suns shining now so I'm off 
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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02GF74
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 11:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pajsh
quote:
Originally posted by bob
My money is still on the timing being 180 degs out.
You may well have No1 piston at TDC and the cam arrow in the right place but if its on the wrong stroke its 180 degs from bang.
I have been at this point along with many others, tell tale sign is the slow turn over when cranking the engine.Whip the cam belt off and give the
crank another revolution till No1 is tdc again and have another go.
[Edited on 24/3/08 by bob]
Thanks Bob but I'm not sure this will make a difference. If I just wind the crank around one turn surely it will be back at TDC again and the
relationship with the cam will still be the same.
Yep- exactly the same.
mj is wasted spart - if you think you are 180 degree out in timing, swap the 2 pairs of plugs out.
easy to tell if no.1 is on compression stroe by putting thumb over spark plug hole and wnding the carnk by hand - or whipping off the cam cover and
looking at the valves.
you could do that to verify cam timing is about right.
my money is on the battery not having the oompf to both turn over engine and supply mj with enough juice for sparking.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 11:46 AM |
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Just a thought , what compression ratio are you running? Too high and the starter will struggle . Automatic transmission Pinto starter has higher
torque if you can find one
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pajsh
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 02:56 PM |
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Been playing this afternoon but not much further on.
With no plugs the engine turns fine so it's not too tight.
Checked the timing and with the crank pully on TDC the cam pointer is on the dot.
With plugs in it is sluggish and I think not turning enough to draw fuel and start.
Turned it over with one plug out but won't fire. Tends to back fire through the trumpets after a bit of cranking.
Suggests to me the timing is 180 out for some reason but I set it up with the timing disc so can't understand why it would be. With the inlet
valve at full lift I set the crank to full lift (308 deg IIRC) and then put the timing belt on. Wound it back to TDC and cam pulley pointer lined up
with the dot.
Checked the MJ wiring (only really concerned with the coil pack as I know I'm getting a spark so I'm pretty sure the VR sensor is reading
and the TPS I'm not bothered about at the moment. It's wired up with pin 10 to pin 3 on the coil (A) and pin 12 to pin 1 on the coil
(B).
I might try swapping the plug leads around to see what happens just in case the spark is on the wrong stroke.
I think though it is just a high compression, wild cam that needs some umph to get it going.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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pajsh
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| posted on 24/3/08 at 07:29 PM |
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Swapped the spark leads and it ran! Still back firing out the carb a bit but I think that is just timing and I'll sort that when I manage to lay
my hands on a laptop.
Not sure how this has happened as I checked the wiring this afternoon and it was the same as the megajolt diagram so thought it must be right. Also I
thought I was very careful when I moved the coil pack and extended the wiring.
Since then I've found two different diagrams on the net one showing pin 10 to pin 3 (and 12 to 1) and one showing pin 10 to pin 1 (and 12 to 3).
Not that it really make much difference if you know what you are doing as it just depends if coil A is 1-4 or 2-3.
Still sorted now I hope. I need borrow a laptop and to flash a decent map in then I shouldn't be far of being back on the road.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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02GF74
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| posted on 25/3/08 at 10:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pajsh
Swapped the spark leads and it ran!
Now which genius said to do that?!!?!??!
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pajsh
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| posted on 26/3/08 at 08:09 PM |
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Give that man a coconut!
Sorry I wasted everyones time but if ya don't ask ya don't learn.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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