black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 06:24 PM |
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BackFire_first engine start_Pinto_MJL_ZX6Rcarbs
Hello again, after my first engine start I must solve "few" problems :-(
Few data about my engine:
Engine Pinto 2.0, MJL unit with TPS sensor (Chestersportcars) and ZX6R carbs and exhaust manifold(Kitpartsdirect).
When I started engine - after few rpm it start but runing very bad and with lot of smoke and only under full throttle and sometimes with back fire to
the inlet and carbs (carbs start firing!!! - Im using Facet Fuel Pump Road with 1.5 - 2.5 Psi but fuel pump still runing - and fuel still splattering
from carbs - I hope that this problem I can solve with fuel pressure regulator or some pressure switch which disconnect fuel pump when is pressur to
big)
But question is what can make backfiring - bad spark advance? Please, see pictures under if I have good instaled VR sensor on good position.
MJL using map for Pingo directly from Chestersportcar.
Carbs with inlet are directly from Kitpartsdirect set up for Pint... I hope.
Where can be a problem?
Thank you everybody for any idea.
... and sorry for my english...
Regards,
Petr
[Edited on 28/11/08 by black.viper]
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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bartonp
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 06:34 PM |
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Mate - that's the least of your worries, you've put the steering wheel on the wrong side! 
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 06:51 PM |
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wonder if the VR sensor could be a little closer to the trigger. i think its supposed to be about 1mm? don't think that would cause the
backfiring in the carbs though. might help it run a bit smoother though
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 06:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bartonp
Mate - that's the least of your worries, you've put the steering wheel on the wrong side!
:-) How easy, I try change side of my steering wheel :-) It would be good for parking :-)
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 06:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
wonder if the VR sensor could be a little closer to the trigger. i think its supposed to be about 1mm? don't think that would cause the
backfiring in the carbs though. might help it run a bit smoother though
Thank you IŽll try made smaller space between... but somewher I read that 1mm is ideal but up to 3mm is it ok... but IŽll do it how you say, may be
it help.
Thx, Petr
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 07:14 PM |
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my thinking is, if its closer it may give a better signal to where the crank is, and give more reliable timing.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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r1_pete
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 07:21 PM |
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Sounds like you have a similar problem to one I had with the carbs, are the slides lifting when you open the throttle? if not the carb tops/diaphragm
arent sealing properly.
If you have fuel spluttering out of the carbs when not running it will never run properly, check the needle valves in the carbs. Which Facet pump are
you using? if its the cylindrical type they're far too much pressure for bike carbs.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 07:31 PM |
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I would aim for 1.0 - 1.5mm spacing between the VR sensor and the wheel, if you can manage. You might need to make your bracket a bit stronger too -
it's a common cause of mis-firing around 3500 - 4000 rpm, as the bracket starts to resonate with the engine vibration.
As for your current problem - make sure that you've got the plug leads correctly (in the correct firing order, and that the 3 wires into the
coil are correct). Finally, make sure that the gap in your trigger wheel is exactly in the right place (look at Autosport Labs site for some really
good diagrams).
Finally, if everything is in the right place and connected properly, try disconnecting the MJ unit and just try to run with just the EDIS unit. It
should give a fixed 10 degrees BTDC, which will give you a decent idle, but will cough when the revs rise over a few thousand rpm. Once it runs well
on just the EDIS, plug the MJ back in and work from there.
An afterthought - are you using shielded cable for the sensor? Do you have just one end of the screening earthed? (mustn't earth both ends!).
Are your signal wires well away from the HT leads and high-current devices like the alternator? Any of those can cause false signals that mess up the
timing.
HTH
David
[Edited on 28/11/08 by David Jenkins]
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 07:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Sounds like you have a similar problem to one I had with the carbs, are the slides lifting when you open the throttle? if not the carb tops/diaphragm
arent sealing properly.
If you have fuel spluttering out of the carbs when not running it will never run properly, check the needle valves in the carbs. Which Facet pump are
you using? if its the cylindrical type they're far too much pressure for bike carbs.
When I turn ignition key - 1 position (pump runing), 2 position (pump runing), 3 starting position (pump not runing) ...and fuel spluttering from
carbs after few seconds
Im using Facet SOLID STATE FUEL PUMP 1.5-2.5
PSI
I hoped that this pressure could be good for ZX6R carbs but now... :-(
What is better for solve this problem - pressure regulator or pressure switch (which electronicly stop fuel pump)?
Thx for good idea.
Petr
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:03 PM |
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i may be wrong but the pump should only come on when in the second key position and it will stay on when the engine is starting in position 3
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:10 PM |
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Originally I had a Facet pump and regulator with my CBR600 carbs, but eventually I sold them and got a bike pump - they give greater flow but at a
lower pressure.
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Originally I had a Facet pump and regulator with my CBR600 carbs, but eventually I sold them and got a bike pump - they give greater flow but at a
lower pressure.
Could I ask - which type regulator are you used? And if you are using bike pump, need you regulator?
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tomgregory2000
i may be wrong but the pump should only come on when in the second key position and it will stay on when the engine is starting in position 3
I have wiring loom from Kitpartsdirect (vickygreenloom or carloom) and I only connect wire with label for fuel pump with pump wire and now Im solve
problems and finding mistakes :-(
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:21 PM |
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I think it was a Filter King, made by Malpassi (not sure of the spelling). The trouble with using a regulator is that it has to be adjusted to the
very lowest setting, and it's not easy to get the right pressure. There were some suggestions that it would restrict the flow of petrol - but
later on I found that the problems I had at the time were due to other causes! It may be that the Facet pump and regulator would have worked OK - but
I wanted to get rid of one bit of doubt.
The bike pumps don't need a regulator (usually) - they are set up to drive carbs directly, so they give the right sort of pressure, at the right
flow rate, and almost all of them are self-regulating.
I'm with Tom regarding the wiring - the first position is for accessories (radio, etc) so the pump shouldn't be running. The second
position is for 'run', so the pump should be on. The third position is 'start', so the pump should stay on.
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jacko
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:26 PM |
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Buy a bike pump there made to suite the carbs
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UncleFista
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:40 PM |
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We had problems running our CBR600 carbs with a Facet fuel pump (the one specifically for carbs). It did the same as yours, overpressurised the carbs
and fuel just dribbled out from all over. It ran but badly with backfires 
I'd bet that if you change your pump to a bike one as we did, most of your problems will dissappear
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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jacko
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:41 PM |
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Is the fuel going in the carbs at the top ?were the two pipes join if so i think that's the wrong place that's the breather pipes and
should be open to air
Looking at your photos i think you have blocked the pipe at the bottom of the carbs were the fuel goes in
Jacko
[Edited on 28/11/08 by jacko]
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jacko
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:47 PM |
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carbs on manifold
That pipeyou can see on my carbs is the breather pipe
zx9r carbs
Jacko
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Peteff
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 08:59 PM |
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I thought that too, the fuel inlet is underneath on my bike engine carbs.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 09:55 PM |
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jacko, whats the brass looking connectors with the wires coming out for?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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jacko
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 10:22 PM |
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Hi The brass things are electric solenoids that work valves to cut the fuel off if you drop the bike
i believe there only fitted on European bikes
Graham
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 10:30 PM |
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thanks graham
i haven't got those on mine (my zx9r carbs arrived today )
don't think i'm going to drop my car on its side anyway  just wondered what they were. would be quite handy though, like for a cut off
button or something
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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cloudy
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 10:35 PM |
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It does look awfully like you are supplying fuel to the breather hoses 
I'm sure somebody who knows that carb will be able to point you in the right direction!
www.warnercars.com
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jacko
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 10:36 PM |
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Thats what i was going to do but you have to put power to them to close the valves so i removed the guts out of them
What modle carbs have you got ie
[ C /B / E mine are E's
Jacko
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blakep82
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| posted on 28/11/08 at 10:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
What modle carbs have you got ie
[ C /B / E mine are E's
Jacko
errrr... haven't a clue. these ones have tps, so good enough for me (i hope, this time lol)
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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