Chris Green
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 12:23 PM |
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2.9i or pinto then Zetec
Hello all,
I am trying to decide which engine to fit, and have got the following options...
Option 1 - Cologne 2.9i V6 - It is fitted in my donor car. The problem is that I'd need a 2WD V6 gearbox.
Q1. What would I do about the injection? is there any way I could use the standard injection and ECU? OR will I need anything else? Throttle bodies
and a management system would be very expensive, and well out of my price range.
Q2. Would I need to change the sump? the 2.9i from the 4x4 has got an alloy sump I believe. can I modify the alloy one?
Option 2 - Pinto, with the idea of upgrading to a zetec after SVA.
I could probably buy a complete pinto engine for less money than the V6 type 9 box that I need for the 2.9 route, and I could probably sell the 2.9
lump for a bit on ebay.
Q3. What is involved in changing from a pinto to a zetec? I'm guessing its a big job.
Q4. how expensive is the management system to run a Zetec? From what I can tell, you cannot use the standard plenum and injection?
What does everyone think? Is there any other options I am forgetting about?
Apologies for all the questions.
Regards,
Chris.
[Edited on 6-10-04 by Chris Green]
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James
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 02:00 PM |
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Why not straight to Zetec?
Save doing stuff twice and you get a good engine with plenty of power/tuning potential.
If that's not an option then I'd do Pinto to Zetec.
Steve Gusterson has used the 2.4V6 which is the little brother of your one. He's used the standard plenum etc.
Getting a manual gearbox won't be easy but one from a 2.8v6 Capri would fit and I don't think they're that hard to find.
All the best,
James
P.S. AFAIK most people don't use the injection on a Zetec- they fit weber carbs.
[Edited on 6/10/04 by James]
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Chris Green
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 03:10 PM |
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The main reason to go down the pinto route would be cost to be honest James.
I know you can pick up a zetec cheap enough, but how much would it be to set it up on carbs? what ignition would be used for that?
If it was throttle bodies, then the cost is way over my (very small) budget.
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CairB
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 06:41 PM |
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Throttle bodies.
They can be picked up reasonably on ebay and along with similarly purchased injectors and a home built MegasquirtnEDIS I think that you may find
something to suit a modest budget.
Cheers,
Colin
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Stu16v
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 06:54 PM |
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My advice is to build the car with the engine you want in it from the outset.
With the V6, you are more than likely going to require two exhaust systems, which means two silencers, and two holes in the side of the body (assuming
'traditional' style).
With the Pinto, you will need to make a hole in the drivers side of the body.
And the replacement Zetec will require a hole in the passenger side...
So with either of the first two options, you will be left with at least one surplus hole in the bodywork. The V6 will may require a change of front
springs (they are quite a heavy old unit).
Of course you want it on the road-but when you are converting it to Zetec, all you will be saying to yourself is "why didnt I build it with one
in the first place???"
Wiring loom mods, cooling system plumbing mods, fabricating new engine mountings, possibly altering chassis to accomodate mountings, new inlet
manifold, another exhaust manifold, modifying throttle cable and clutch cable, defacing your bodywork with extra exhaust holes, or enlarging ones
that dont quite line up now, etc, etc.
It WILL be cheaper in the long run to build with the Zetec to begin with, even though it may take longer to get the car on the road.
A Zetec will run quite sweetly on twin 40's. There are other costs/considerations to bear in mind-worth doing a search for what is required-and
perhaps do the pricing from there.
Remember that there are other engines that could be installed for a similar price too-for example, a 16v VX could be installed for the same money.
Finally, have a serious think about the Pinto as an engine to leave in. A 2 litre motor will give a healthy push, and are easily tunable for a little
outlay. With the budget required to fit a Zetec, you could have a loty of hassle free fun with the Pinto.
Food for thought... 
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Chris Green
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 08:27 PM |
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The more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea of the V6. The weight is putting me of tbh, and it doesn't seem to be a common choice.
Perhaps I should just strip the rear axle from my 4x4 donor, and scrap / sell what's left.
How much is a complete 2.9i engine worth roughly?
I'll keep lookout for a zetec, and see what I find. At least I can get started on some of the chassis without one.
Are all the zetec engines the same physically? if not, how can I find out how they differ? I've got some basic sketches of a zetec, and the sump
looks massive, I guess you just shorten it?
A 16v XE would surely cost more, as the engine is more expensive to start with, and a new bellhousing is req'd?
Carbs would be a nice setup for a zetec, but how much would the management be? Is it possibly to use the standard plenum?
oops, sorry about all the questions!
[Edited on 6-10-04 by Chris Green]
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andyharding
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 09:31 PM |
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It will cost you twice as much as you expect to get the Zetec running properly.
A bike engine would be cheaper if you can get away with no cat.
If I was doing it again I'd use a 2L pinto with twin 40s and light flywheel. Loads cheaper!
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
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zetec
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 08:21 AM |
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As usual I would say get a drive in cars fitted with the engines you fancy. I would say that a good Pinto correctly set up is a very good option and
can't be beaten on price, as long as you don't end up spending loads on a rebuild and tuning to only find that you could have fitted a
standard zetec (pre "95 non cat) for the same. The biggest cost difference if you are fitting webers between the two is you will need at least
an ignition ECU for the zetec, both will more than likely need a sump chop and alternator brackets.
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CairB
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 11:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stu16v
With the Pinto, you will need to make a hole in the drivers side of the body.
And the replacement Zetec will require a hole in the passenger side...
The Duratec exhaust comes out on the drivers side so could be considered as a replacement for a pinto as an alternative to the Zetec. Especially when
the installation costs come down.
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Chris Green
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 12:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zetec
As usual I would say get a drive in cars fitted with the engines you fancy. I would say that a good Pinto correctly set up is a very good option and
can't be beaten on price, as long as you don't end up spending loads on a rebuild and tuning to only find that you could have fitted a
standard zetec (pre "95 non cat) for the same. The biggest cost difference if you are fitting webers between the two is you will need at least
an ignition ECU for the zetec, both will more than likely need a sump chop and alternator brackets.
Why can't the zetec be run on its standard injection though?
What is the cheapest management option? What options are there?
Thanks.
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zetec
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 03:37 PM |
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It can, it's just getting it all to fit under the bonnet, and you end up at least 25bhp down. The standard ECU also needs to be tricked that
it's still living in the donor car with other sensors still connected and poss the alarm. Not sure what the donor ECU is looking for but I know
some have aircon/traction control connections. I seem to remember some people using a basic Escort ECU which may be more basic than a Mondeo one...
It's also far easier to change an aftermarket ECU map with a laptop than the standard Ford item. Also an aftermarket unit will allow adjustable
rev limitor, coolant fan switching and shift light along with real time engine data and data logger output. All sound OTT but are useful.
[Edited on 7/10/04 by zetec]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 04:46 PM |
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Megasquirt is easy cheap enough to use on any car , and it even has an EDIS module variant as reported earlier .
a plenum can be made up quite easy to fit a manifold assuming twin 45 manifold or something like it , with one single throttle body at the front or
wherever you like it !
seems simple enough to me .
My build will feature MS from the start - and a motor that doenst have emissions standards!
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Chris Green
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 05:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zetec
It can, it's just getting it all to fit under the bonnet, and you end up at least 25bhp down. The standard ECU also needs to be tricked that
it's still living in the donor car with other sensors still connected and poss the alarm. Not sure what the donor ECU is looking for but I know
some have aircon/traction control connections. I seem to remember some people using a basic Escort ECU which may be more basic than a Mondeo one...
It's also far easier to change an aftermarket ECU map with a laptop than the standard Ford item. Also an aftermarket unit will allow adjustable
rev limitor, coolant fan switching and shift light along with real time engine data and data logger output. All sound OTT but are useful.
[Edited on 7/10/04 by zetec]
Cheers Zetec. I'm going to be on the lookout for a 1.6 16v escort I think. If one comes up cheap enough, I will look into it a bit more. Do you
know anybody who has done this?
volvosport, I'm looking through the megasuirt site now. Maybe that could be an option for me. I don't fit the criteria just yet
though...
".....You will need enough mechanical aptitude to know what to do to make the engine run right....."
I would rather fit the zetec using a standard setup, and then work my way onto carbs / throttle bodies etc. I would like to get something running
first, and then modify it after. The performance isn't too critical yet, as even a standard 1.6 zetec would still be quick enough.
Again, sorry for all the questions, I'm just excited.
Regards,
Chris.
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James
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 08:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Green
The performance isn't too critical yet, as even a standard 1.6 zetec would still be quick enough.
Chris.
Not for long it won't!
Atb,
James
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CairB
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 11:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Not for long it won't!
Words of wisdom indeed James
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James
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 12:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CairB
quote:
Originally posted by James
Not for long it won't!
Words of wisdom indeed James
I haven't even built my car and it doesn't feel fast enough! 
Problem is going in too many cars like Hicost'/Jaspers/Ison Blade- they're great but a Pinto just doesn't seem to cut it after that!
James
[Edited on 8/10/04 by James]
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mackie
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 12:12 PM |
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You can have a ride in ours if you want, James 
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James
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 01:37 PM |
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Actually, I haven't been in a V8 one yet. Cheers for the offer!
James
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andybod
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 posted on 8/10/04 at 08:03 PM |
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pinto/zetec
it might be worth having a look at this site www.turbosport.co.uk find main menu then old school, zetec --- seem,s to be quite alot of info regarding
r.w.d conversion and parts to use not sure what engine to go for myself anybody know exactly what parts are required to do r,w,d zetec conversion?
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zetec
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| posted on 9/10/04 at 07:57 PM |
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Easy option is 1.8 or 2.0 pre "95. There are plenty about from £100 up. Using this engine means you won't need a cat for emissions test on
SVA (unless rules change, but I have not heard of this happening) and will be able to fit carbs if that is what you want. You will need to either
modify a Mondeo sump or some use an Escort one to give more clearance, easy job if you can weld ali. You might need to fit a different water pump (£25
new) depending on the donor car. You will more than likely need to make up a new alternator fixing. The type 9 or MT75 gearbox can be used (same bolt
pattern on the zetec as for Pinto/Crossflow) with a standard Ford clutch, you might want to lighten the flywheel again depending on the donor car. You
will need to get an ignition ECU or ignition/injection ECU if you are not using the Ford one, most people tend to end up using a non Ford aftermarket
ECU as they are more user friendly and easier to set up but more expensive. I'm sure I've left off something but everything has been
sorted for this engine so help is always available on here.
Other smaller capacity zetecs have been fitted but tend to be less common than the 1.8/2.0 units and fitted to later cars so not so SVA friendly.
[Edited on 9/10/04 by zetec]
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andybod
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| posted on 9/10/04 at 08:26 PM |
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has anybody got any pictures of modified sump or i have read that 1800 cvh sierra sump will fit has anyone had any experiance with this ta
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zetec
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| posted on 9/10/04 at 09:10 PM |
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The first picture on my photo archive shows a modded Dunnel sump, starts life as a Mondeo sump. They also baffle and supply a longer reach pickup
pipe.
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Chris Green
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 12:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zetec
Easy option is 1.8 or 2.0 pre "95. There are plenty about from £100 up. Using this engine means you won't need a cat for emissions test on
SVA (unless rules change, but I have not heard of this happening) and will be able to fit carbs if that is what you want. You will need to either
modify a Mondeo sump or some use an Escort one to give more clearance, easy job if you can weld ali. You might need to fit a different water pump (£25
new) depending on the donor car. You will more than likely need to make up a new alternator fixing. The type 9 or MT75 gearbox can be used (same bolt
pattern on the zetec as for Pinto/Crossflow) with a standard Ford clutch, you might want to lighten the flywheel again depending on the donor car. You
will need to get an ignition ECU or ignition/injection ECU if you are not using the Ford one, most people tend to end up using a non Ford aftermarket
ECU as they are more user friendly and easier to set up but more expensive. I'm sure I've left off something but everything has been
sorted for this engine so help is always available on here.
Other smaller capacity zetecs have been fitted but tend to be less common than the 1.8/2.0 units and fitted to later cars so not so SVA friendly.
[Edited on 9/10/04 by zetec]
Thank you Zetec. The reason I said a 1.6 is because I thought that it would be easier to find an escort. Thinking about it, there are always loads on
1.8 mondeo's about, so maybe I should look for one of them!
Is there much difference between a 1.8 and 2.0 Zetec?
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zetec
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 03:23 PM |
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10-15 bhp and a bit more torque.
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Chris Green
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 03:43 PM |
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thanks for replying.
I forgot to state that I meant is there any physical difference between the 1.8 and 2.0, and if so, what.
Cheers!
Chris.
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