KFC
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 12:45 AM |
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KLDE larger displacement than 2.5L??
This is a long shot but does anyone know if you can make a 2.5L klde or klze a 3.0L or there abouts? I'm doing a V6 conversion and the V6 going
in is a 2.5L klde. If the project is successful then I'll rebuild my spare engine that I'm using as mock up. I just thought,
wouldn't it be nice to gain more displacement in a small package? It's torque I like so I'll probably get people say, turbo! Maybe
but electric driven.
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snapper
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 08:19 AM |
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I would look at available oversize pistons first.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 10:51 AM |
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A supercharger would be the way to go if you want something that feels like a larger displacement engine.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 01:16 PM |
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I think it is difficukt to bore but there are 2.7 stroker kits out there (mainly USA)
http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?p=1923976740
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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KFC
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 02:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A supercharger would be the way to go if you want something that feels like a larger displacement engine.
I won't have the room but an electric driven turbo sounds good. You could have it come on when ever you want, no lag. 😀
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A supercharger would be the way to go if you want something that feels like a larger displacement engine.
I won't have the room but an electric driven turbo sounds good. You could have it come on when ever you want, no lag. 😀
.....and the amount of power you need to drive the electric turbo will be similar to the added power from the pressurised charge, you don't get
something for nothing.
Might be worth looking at the vortech or rotrex chargers, about the same size as an alternator and in a similar position, rotrex has its own oil
system so no extra sump mods. Not cheap though.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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bi22le
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| posted on 1/11/14 at 02:39 PM |
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NOS?
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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KFC
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 01:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A supercharger would be the way to go if you want something that feels like a larger displacement engine.
I won't have the room but an electric driven turbo sounds good. You could have it come on when ever you want, no lag. 😀
.....and the amount of power you need to drive the electric turbo will be similar to the added power from the pressurised charge, you don't get
something for nothing.
Might be worth looking at the vortech or rotrex chargers, about the same size as an alternator and in a similar position, rotrex has its own oil
system so no extra sump mods. Not cheap though.
Sounds good but again? I won't have room, the klde runs an external driven oil pump, on the other side is the alternator. No room for anything
else, I want to run an air conditioning pump but will struggle with finding one that will fit in the space I have. I would imagine the electric motor
will draw about 12 to 15 amps? I have no idea..
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Ugg10
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 07:44 AM |
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Of the electric turbos I have seen they seem to quote an extra 5-10% power a real turbo or supercharger running sensible boost should be around
30-50%.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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KFC
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 10:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Of the electric turbos I have seen they seem to quote an extra 5-10% power a real turbo or supercharger running sensible boost should be around
30-50%.
Hmm, that's not worth the agro...
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Ugg10
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| posted on 2/11/14 at 01:12 PM |
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A bit out of the box but some US muscle cars have been fitted with the turbo at the end of the exhaust, this would probably cause a bit of lag but I
guess it works for big volume engines.
Have you looked at fitting a small turbo on each side of the engine, the one on the new ford 1.0 ecoboost might be worth looking at as this can make
120hp, so two with similar displacement (1.25l from half the v6) may work.
FORD FOCUS C-MAX 1.0 12V ECO BOOST TURBO COMPLETE TURBO UNIT MIDA 125BHP
[Edited on 2/11/14 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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DIY Si
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| posted on 5/11/14 at 09:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
Sounds good but again? I won't have room, the klde runs an external driven oil pump, on the other side is the alternator. No room for anything
else, I want to run an air conditioning pump but will struggle with finding one that will fit in the space I have.
What's this external oil pump you're using? The standard pump sits on the nose of the crank and is internal to the engine. The only things
that are external usually are the alternator, on the right as you look from the front, and power steering pump, on the left. If the car/engine had
aircon fitted, the pump should sit under the alt and use the same belt.
Otherwise, the only real way to get a bigger KL is the 2.7l stroker kits, and if you're feeling brave an overbore. I say brave as the cylinder
walls are quite thin due to the top hat liners, so it's not advised if it can be avoided. The other option is to do something funky with the
inlet and replace it with a supercharger. But that's not a 10 minute job.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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KFC
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| posted on 5/11/14 at 09:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
quote:
Originally posted by KFC
Sounds good but again? I won't have room, the klde runs an external driven oil pump, on the other side is the alternator. No room for anything
else, I want to run an air conditioning pump but will struggle with finding one that will fit in the space I have.
What's this external oil pump you're using? The standard pump sits on the nose of the crank and is internal to the engine. The only things
that are external usually are the alternator, on the right as you look from the front, and power steering pump, on the left. If the car/engine had
aircon fitted, the pump should sit under the alt and use the same belt.
Otherwise, the only real way to get a bigger KL is the 2.7l stroker kits, and if you're feeling brave an overbore. I say brave as the cylinder
walls are quite thin due to the top hat liners, so it's not advised if it can be avoided. The other option is to do something funky with the
inlet and replace it with a supercharger. But that's not a 10 minute job.
I feel dumb now. I thought I read somewhere that the oil pump was external and I think I actually have the power steering pump. I was concentrating on
the installation and the mock up chassis. Hmmm, I can't understand how I over looked this, well, suddenly I have options with the space..
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KFC
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| posted on 5/11/14 at 10:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
The other option is to do something funky with the inlet and replace it with a supercharger. But that's not a 10 minute job.
I think a supercharger might be the only option. I am going to be running throttle bodies and need to make an inlet with airbox. I was originally
thinking of a carbon tray type but it needs to have strong structure and perfectly sealed. This is a whole different ball game... 
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spiderman
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 12:03 AM |
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Why not use the V6 from an S type jag. 3 litre and 240BHP out of the box, same family of engines and can come with a decent Getrag gearbox attached
with no expensive adapter plates to buy. I belive it is a little larger and heavier than the Mazda unit but may suit your purpose a little better.
Could put a supercharger on once you get bored of the power available.
Spider
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KFC
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 07:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spiderman
Why not use the V6 from an S type jag. 3 litre and 240BHP out of the box, I belive it is a little larger and heavier.
Could put a supercharger on once you get bored of the power available.
I think it's too wide and a bit longer than the klde. I chose the the klde already. If you can give dimensions then I could use it for the next
project! Width across the heads at the widest point and the length from the bellhousing to the crank pulley. I didn't want to cut a new subframe
and move the steering rack in the RX8. I think the adapter plate over the complexities of a crossmember and prop shaft out weigh a simple adapter
plate. Flywheel back is all original, simples.
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40inches
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 09:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by spiderman
Why not use the V6 from an S type jag. 3 litre and 240BHP out of the box, I belive it is a little larger and heavier.
Could put a supercharger on once you get bored of the power available.
I think it's too wide and a bit longer than the klde. I chose the the klde already. If you can give dimensions then I could use it for the next
project! Width across the heads at the widest point and the length from the bellhousing to the crank pulley. I didn't want to cut a new subframe
and move the steering rack in the RX8. I think the adapter plate over the complexities of a crossmember and prop shaft out weigh a simple adapter
plate. Flywheel back is all original, simples.
I am fitting the AJ30 engine in the MK. The Getrag gearbox(It is incredibly small and only weighs 33 kilos) and gear change are fitted, the engine is
on the engine stand, I will post measurements later. It weighs 140 kilos with alternator and starter motor.
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KFC
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 01:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
I am fitting the AJ30 engine in the MK. The Getrag gearbox(It is incredibly small and only weighs 33 kilos) and gear change are fitted, the engine is
on the engine stand, I will post measurements later. It weighs 140 kilos with alternator and starter motor.
That sounds interesting! I think I did get measurements at one stage but decided on the klde 2.5l. Is it a duratec 30? 60 degree bank? I found that a
90 degree won't fit, although, I didn't know the height of the widest points. As in, the back of the engine, centre of the crank height to
the widest points, that would be the corners of the heads. I'll measure mine up accurately and put some photos on here tonight so you can see.
What inlet system are you using? I've seen a 40hp increase on the klde by changing to throttle bodies and running megasquirt management.
Cheers
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Ugg10
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 01:47 PM |
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There are details of a Westfiel with the jag 3.0l V6 on the web somewhere if you google. This has the Jenvey TBs on it, standard they are 240hp an can
get up to 300hp with TBs and ECU IIRC.
I have a fiend putting one of these in a Scimitar, it has an interesting fuel system that has no return pipe but the pressure regulator is controlled
by the ECU. If you have issues with bonnet height then the Duratec ST220 plenum will fit with a spacer plate, again if you search the net there is a
lotus esprit with one of these in it on there with this set up. Also worth noting the inlet ports are very narro and long so may be interestingmaking
a manifold to fit. Finally, a normal mod is to use the Mondeo single piece fly wheel rather than the dual mass Jag one.
Hope this helps, and yes it is basically the same as teh Ford ST220 engine with VVC on it, part of the Duratech V6 family.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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KFC
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 10:48 PM |
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I can't find a good enough picture of the engine to put the measurements on it but I have the measurements anyway.
On the back of the engine. from the center line of the crank upwards to the widest part of the cylinder heads measure 25cm in height and 53cm across,
total height from the center line of the crank to the top of the heads is 35cm. I removed the heavy badly tuned inlet a while ago and scraped it. the
length of the engine from the bellhousing to the front of the pulley is 48cm.
I might have the engine off the stand over the weekend for another trial fit so if I remember I take some photos then.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 6/11/14 at 11:24 PM |
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Have you been in touch with clairetoo on here aka crapengineering.weebly.com. She knows quite a bit about thi KL engine and has fitted them in a fury
and mx5. She has engineered a throttle body set up and mx5 gearbix fitting kit. There is quite a numbervof posts on mx5nutz about this engine. Also
quite a bit on mx6.com on turboing it.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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v8kid
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 02:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
. Finally, a normal mod is to use the Mondeo single piece fly wheel rather than the dual mass Jag one.
Just to clarify the mondeo 4 cylinder models have an 8 bolt fixing flywheel and the 6 cylinder models have the same 6 bolt fixing as the jag but are
dual mass flywheel.
What solid flywheel do you reckon fits?
Cheers
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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40inches
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 09:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
. Finally, a normal mod is to use the Mondeo single piece fly wheel rather than the dual mass Jag one.
Just to clarify the mondeo 4 cylinder models have an 8 bolt fixing flywheel and the 6 cylinder models have the same 6 bolt fixing as the jag but are
dual mass flywheel.
What solid flywheel do you reckon fits?
Cheers
The Mondeo 2.5 V6. They are solid, the 3 litre is Dual Mass. MONDEO MK2 ST200 2.5 V6 GENUINE FORD FLYWHEEL
The problem with this is that the front wheel drive Jag/Ford V6 engines use a pre-engaged starter, but the rear wheel drive Jag uses a Bendix type
starter, different ring gear pitch, something I am wrestling with at the moment 
The V6 Jag/Ford use 8 bolt flywheels.
[Edited on 7-11-14 by 40inches]
[Edited on 7-11-14 by 40inches]
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v8kid
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 09:24 AM |
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EBay is listing both for the 2.5  there must be a model change somewhere. Ta for the heads up about the starter I could have come a cropper
there.
Have you considered using a 7.5" button flywheel in conjunction with the standard flexplate? I used a 7.5" clutch on a 5l rover a and it
coped fine. The only problem is working out the spline meshing in advance of taking the box out.
Cheers
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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40inches
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 09:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Ta for the heads up about the starter I could have come a cropper there.
Cheers
I already have
I thought I could swap the ring gears over, but the Jag ring gear has a 4mm larger bore I think I will have the Ford ring gear machined down in
situ and the Jag one shrunk on.
I have the Jag EPC, and although the starter changed post 2003 I don't think the ring gear was any different.
Sorry KFC, there is a bit of a thread hijack going on here, I think I need to start a new rebuild thread.
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