roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 12:54 PM |
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Starting an engine that's been stood for a long time.
As title really.
Is there anything I should do before trying to start the engine.
I'm putting fresh oil in and new filter.
Was also going to remove plugs and turn over by hand.
Which direction should I turn the sprocket adapter.
Thanks
Brad.
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pmc_3
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 01:18 PM |
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I'd put a teaspoon of oil down the plug holes before turning it over by hand
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roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 01:25 PM |
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Thanks.
I won't be starting it. Just want to see if my wiring is correct.
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Golfedrocks
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 01:25 PM |
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Should be clockwise on most engines I believe? I often spin using the start motor but no fuel or spark until the oil pressure reads okay, depends how
long it has been standing for - but might be worth looking at new belts before any proper use aswell if its been a while.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 01:52 PM |
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I should of mentioned that it's a bike engine.
No belts needed. 
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Golfedrocks
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 01:56 PM |
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I was wondering what engine it was haha 
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adithorp
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 02:09 PM |
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Flange turns anticlockwise. Think about it on the bike: Chain on the left of the wheel.
PS. Output on a car WRD gearbox turns anticlockwise as well
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 02:25 PM |
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Thanks Adi.
Makes sense.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 02:44 PM |
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I would remove plugs so no compression. And as above, bit of oil down each bore, you can chuck a little diesel in there too, helps free rings up.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 02:52 PM |
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I seem to remember that we slightly over fill on oil with bike engines.
Is that correct.
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 04:30 PM |
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Hi
I run ZX10R's in my single seater.
What i've learned is to ensure the oil system primes before you fire it up..
So as above a very small drop of oil down bores, no plugs, fuel pump off/no fuel in it..
Oil in engine, to fill level on glass
Filter off - but half full of oil ready to go and manifold covered with tin foil - neatly folded to run the oil that will, hopefully come out, into
drain pan.. this can get messy..
Spin it over, until oil comes out of the filter housing, quickly spin filter on - and you now know that the oil system is primed.
Spin over again to check pressure.
Top up Oil
Then - with a bit of luck, plugs, fuel etc - a Very well charged battery and you never know it might actually start.. 
HTH
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02GF74
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 04:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
I seem to remember that we slightly over fill on oil with bike engines.
Is that correct.
That's a new one. Would you not think the manufacturer knew what they were doing by making engines with a max and min oil level mark or are
these purely decoration so you can fill over?
Fill to max, bike off stands and vertical
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roadrunner
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| posted on 24/4/20 at 04:43 PM |
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Thanks Jim. Will give it a go.
Haven't got the exhaust manifold yet.
The overfill was just me over thinking.
Bike engines don't sway when in a car.
So the oil slops from one side to the other, hence the slight overfill.
I do know the dangers of overfilling .
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roadrunner
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| posted on 25/4/20 at 12:38 PM |
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I've filled with oil and turned it over by hand and all seems fine.
Will use the starter motor when I think I've completed the wiring.
[Edited on 25/4/20 by roadrunner]
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bi22le
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| posted on 29/4/20 at 10:12 PM |
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I'm hoping to do the same thing in the next few weeks. My 4age has not turned for nearly 4 years. It has just sat in the garage.
Any additional pointers? The belts look good. I was thinking of pre warming the new oil in the sump to help it circulate a little, maybe take the edge
off. I guess as soon as it is pumped into a cold block the heart will all disappear though.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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JAG
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 07:18 AM |
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I have an MX5 1.6 in my car and when I've left it over a winter or whatever I've usually done this;
1) remove all sparkplugs
2) disconnect the fuel pump or the injectors
3) spin over on the starter motor until I get good oil pressure
4) reconnect everything and start as soon as possible
My car has now been sat for 4 years and when I restart it this Summer (fingers crossed) that's exactly what I will do
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 07:27 AM |
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Mine has had a good turn over on just the starter.
Shouldn't get any damage when the parts are moving that slowly.
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adithorp
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 08:30 AM |
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BEC oil overfill differs depending on the motor so best take advice on it from those who run zx10. My R1 is about 250ml. For your initial start up
though it won't matter as I guess you're not going to go out doing high g cornering.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 09:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
BEC oil overfill differs depending on the motor so best take advice on it from those who run zx10. My R1 is about 250ml. For your initial start up
though it won't matter as I guess you're not going to go out doing high g cornering.
Not quite yet.
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 10:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
BEC oil overfill differs depending on the motor so best take advice on it from those who run zx10. My R1 is about 250ml. For your initial start up
though it won't matter as I guess you're not going to go out doing high g cornering.
Not quite yet.
Hi
Sorry - didn't notice this bit
I've learnt a fair bit running these engines for a good few years in my Reynard - mostly through personal experience 
But once worked through they're good performance and plenty of bang for the buck.. 
So
Overfilling is standard practice if running a standard wet sump (which I presume you are?) as it helps to avoid oil starvation caused by the dreaded
oil surge issue - but it's better still if we can mitigate that surge a bit.
&
Keeping the oil in it can be fun as they tend to breathe a bit heavy when properly spanking the thing, but there's things we can do; So assuming
you're running a wet sump:-
Are you running a baffle plate on the sump?
Are you running an Accusump or similar?
Have you changed to an electric water pump? (I know it's an odd question but it's relevant..)
And
If you haven't already mentioned it on here somewhere - what year/model is the engine?
Let me know where you're at and I can probably help you learn from my mistakes!
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 12:19 PM |
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Thanks for the info Jim.
I knew I'd heard somewhere.
My engine is 06-07 and will be running a standard wet sump .
It was an ex bike racers spare engine that had been stuck in his garage for a couple of years before I took it off his hands in 2012.
He said that he believed it had a bent selecter fork and worn dog gears. And low and behold it did.
Managed to obtain a full gearbox internals from America that where in perfect condition. But the silicone sealant around the housing was definitely
not put there by Kawasaki. 
So it looks like either he'd swapped the gearbox parts over to his race engine or just swapped the full engine over.
Me thinks he's been using a flat shifter.
When I've sorted the ignition side of thing's out (still using half of the car loom and splicing into the bike ignition switch)
It will be using a Power Commander for fuelling.
I have connected all the wiring but need to figure out why the zx10 clocks are powered on when the ignition is off.
I need to look at the sump. It's a bit low. Need to lift the engine a tad and maybe add some timber skids to protect the sump.
Need to get someone to shorten it for me.. Can't alloy weld.
I've also ordered a in-line fuel injection pump as i have a plastic tank and don't want to fit the zx pump.
Then it's just a case of obtaining a sprocket adapter and exhaust manifold and I will be there.
So if anyone has any of the above lying around. Beer tokens available.
Brad
[Edited on 30/4/20 by roadrunner]
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 03:21 PM |
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Hi
Ok so wet sump, OE set up currently
Shortening the sump will be fun, there's not a lot of meat on that bone..
If it helps I've got several spare sumps (from 2008 engines - believe are the same) which have had about a millimetre machined off the mounting
face to allow for a baffle plate and additional gasket.
If a spare sump and a baffle plate are handy shout (as mine's now running a dry sump) and i'll wing one your way, they're just
gathering dust here.
Accusumps are IMHO worth a look, found mine worked OK, eventually West performance on the Isle of Man did a dry sump kit for me and that's been
on for a few seasons now (packaging reasons more than anything else)
The other thing we struggled with is the breather (runs from the top of the gearbox to the air box) putting out a lot of oil when properly giving it
some stick.
The 'solution' is a bit complicated but has additional benefits.
First thing was to dump the mechanical water pump, switching to a davies craig electric pump (which made the cooling MUCH better)
Then run the breather pipe to a (Renault 5 GT Turbo!) oil/air separator, the oil then being returned to the crankcase using the hole in it left by
most of the water pump being removed, and the air/any oil mist to a nice small catch tank.
If you get to that same issue shout and I can provide blow by blow details of what we did, and how you can use part of the water pump body to mount
the oil return pipe.
HTH
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/4/20 at 04:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JimSpencer
Hi
Ok so wet sump, OE set up currently
Shortening the sump will be fun, there's not a lot of meat on that bone..
If it helps I've got several spare sumps (from 2008 engines - believe are the same) which have had about a millimetre machined off the mounting
face to allow for a baffle plate and additional gasket.
If a spare sump and a baffle plate are handy shout (as mine's now running a dry sump) and i'll wing one your way, they're just
gathering dust here.
Accusumps are IMHO worth a look, found mine worked OK, eventually West performance on the Isle of Man did a dry sump kit for me and that's been
on for a few seasons now (packaging reasons more than anything else)
The other thing we struggled with is the breather (runs from the top of the gearbox to the air box) putting out a lot of oil when properly giving it
some stick.
The 'solution' is a bit complicated but has additional benefits.
First thing was to dump the mechanical water pump, switching to a davies craig electric pump (which made the cooling MUCH better)
Then run the breather pipe to a (Renault 5 GT Turbo!) oil/air separator, the oil then being returned to the crankcase using the hole in it left by
most of the water pump being removed, and the air/any oil mist to a nice small catch tank.
If you get to that same issue shout and I can provide blow by blow details of what we did, and how you can use part of the water pump body to mount
the oil return pipe.
HTH
Great onfo there Jim.
Definitely interested in the spare sump.
Does using the accusump give you more ground clearance?
As things stand, I am fitting the standard airbox but turned round 180 degrees. I've turned the mounting plate and blocked off the cam top
breather pipe. Was going to connect that to the crankcase breather on the air box as it faces the rocker top and then fit a small filter to the
crankcase breather. But now I'm thinking of a catch can.
Obviously I won't be pushing mine as much as you push yours
Will do some research regarding the electric water pump.
How do you find the zx10 performance wise. I loved the zx9 but as soon as I had a passenger the performance dropped off so I thought the zx10 would
be far better.
Brad
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 1/5/20 at 11:19 AM |
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Hi Brad
Drop me a U2U with your address and i'll post a sump and baffle plate over.
The Accusump is effectively an Oil Reserve, you plumb it into the oil gallery and if it detects a drop in pressure it'll release oil into the
system and then re-set itself when oil pressure re-appears. Used generally as a half way house solution rather than going the full hog, but
expensive, dry sump fix to oil surge issues.
If you go onto Merlin Motorsports website and search for it they have a very good article on what they do etc.
I've no experience of a ZX9 I'm afraid, but understand they're circa 135 bhp? If so you should certainly notice the difference as
you'll be circa a 3rd more than that, I've always found the ZX10 to be a very tractable engine, my mum could potter it round the paddock
at a couple of thousand revs and it'd be quite happy, or you can spin it round to 13odd and it gets down the road..
Obviously my installation differs a bit as it's probably 100 kgs or so lighter and it's geared very short at circa 125 at 13500 in 6th, so
it goes pretty good for what it is.
One thing I'd suggest, because they've got a good mid range, you could gear it reasonably long for road use and give yourself a bit of an
easier time when cruising perhaps?
HTH
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roadrunner
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| posted on 1/5/20 at 12:16 PM |
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U2U sent.
Thanks again Jim.
With the zx9 I was running a standard 3.62 diff.
With the zx10 I managed to get hold of a 3.14 for £50
Brad
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