Surrey Dave
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 12:10 PM |
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DIY central heating
Fancy fitting some central heating , I'm thinking remove hot water tank fit combi boiler in airing cupboard or loft .
If I am a bit creative with my rad placements (ie not under any windows!!),the pipe work would be very straightforward.
But I'm worried about the gas part, is there someone reasonably local to me who can give advice before I start, and also connect / commission
the system when fitted so I don't , take down a row of houses........
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steve_gus
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 12:30 PM |
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at the least,. id get a book. I dont think is that straightforward - if you dont balance the system correctly some rads wont work.
you MUST have the gas fitted by a CORGI registered fitter, or you will have an illegal installation.
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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froggy
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 12:30 PM |
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ive had various quotes from,plumbers before i did my self build and the baxi 105e is the one we used and the boiler itself is easy to fit with
templates for hanging and piping up. you could fit it yourself and let the plumber do the gas connection but some dont like this arrangement i found
but its not that bad to do .i think the plumber will want to do the flue fitting too though. im not sure if you need building regs approval for
replacing a boiler as you are supposed to use a condensing boiler now and plumbers arent supposed to wire boilers in unless trained to do so
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JoelP
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 12:46 PM |
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you can slyly add a power point for the boiler yourself, twould be illegal but you can always say you did it early in 2004, after the colour change
but before it became law. The pipework is dead simple, my mate is corgi registered and we fitted a full system together last year, took about 20 odd
hours.
Plumbers dont like comissioning someone elses work because they lose out on so much wage! 
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 01:13 PM |
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My house is mid terraced so its never super cold.
At present I have an old warm air central heating ,which is housed downstairs in a cupboard which is fairly central in the house , there is an old
round pin socket and the gas comes up out of the floor in steel pipe, directly above is the airing cupboard upstairs.
Therefore within this central space approx 1m x .5m running floor to ceiling I have all the pipes etc I need. and directly above i have acces to a
cold water feed and an old asbestos flue running up out of the roof.
If i run the pipes front to back along the landing i can pickup the bathroom and all the bedrooms with minimum floor lifting.
Hence trying to bend the radiator location rules.
[Edited on 26/11/05 by Surrey Dave]
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Ferg
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 01:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Plumbers dont like comissioning someone elses work because they lose out on so much wage!
"Sweeping Generalisation Of The Year Award Nomination"
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zilspeed
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 01:59 PM |
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So you disagree then Ferg ?
P.S. You wouldn't seriously be interested in fixing someone elses f**k ups would you ?
P.P.S. How's the GTM going
(John F now ex GTMer)
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 02:19 PM |
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If you enjoy having a bath and plentiful hot water DO NOT have a combi!
Most are absouloutely useless when filling a bath etc.
I'll bet now the pipes coming from you cylinder are 22mm and they'll be replaced with 15mm (and be as good?) coming from a combi,
doesn't add up somewhere!
P.s Plumbers or Gas engineers don't like comissioning other peoples work because they have to put their names to it by law! If you tell them its
all done properly and there's a un-sleved gas pipe they haven't seen they risk losing their Corgi Registration.
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Kowalski
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 02:27 PM |
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>Regarding radiator positions. Make the effort and get the rads under the windows - then the whole of every room will be warm.
I'm against putting your radiators underneath the windows, it means that your radiator heat goes straight out of the window. If the radiator is
away from the window the room is heated by the radiator, then the room loses heat out of the window rather than the heat going straight outside. If a
room is cold it can only be because there isn't enough heat going into it (or too much escaping).
Trying to heat a house by warming up outside isn't very fuel efficient! 
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froggy
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 02:38 PM |
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rads under windows was the norm before double glazing but it doesnt apply as much nowadaysif you have a laser thermometer you will find the inner pane
of glass on most double glazed unit nearly the same temp as the rest of the room.anyway if tradesman hadnt got so greedy over the last couple of years
it wouldnt be worth trying to do it yourself anyway.my labour costs went up 25% between costing the biuld in late 2003 and starting in jan 2004 but
what goes round comes round as the housing market implodes on itself things will get back to normal ,i dont begrudge anyone a living but some of the
prices i got were insane! plumbers wanting £50 an hour on a new build so i had to do it myself in the end
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Jasper
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 02:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
If you enjoy having a bath and plentiful hot water DO NOT have a combi!
Sorry - i have to disagree. I fitted a large Baxi combi anf it fill a bath no problem, and gives me a powerful hot shower - all at 3am if I want it
without having to wait for a tank to fill up.
And do the pipework yourself - it's easy - as long as you can find a Corgi man to do the gas bit. That's what we did (my fatherin-laws a
retired plumber - so no longer Corgi registered).
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dave dickson
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 02:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
...P.s Plumbers or Gas engineers don't like comissioning other peoples work because they have to put their names to it by law! If you tell them
its all done properly and there's a un-sleved gas pipe they haven't seen they risk losing their Corgi Registration.
Exactly.
There are pages and pages of regulations relating to just flues and ventilation that your installation has to comply to, never mind all the other
stuff like gas and electrical connections. Asking a Crogi engineer to put their name to an insatallation they havent done themseves leaves them open
to loosing their ticket and even court action if anything is later found to be wrong.
[Edited on 26/11/05 by dave dickson]
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JoelP
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 03:09 PM |
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you also have to comply with building regs regarding how and where you notch joists etc...
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 03:25 PM |
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I've got a great idea !, what about a pile of twigs burning in the middle of the lounge?
With a ladle suspended over the top for hot water..........
Seriously where do I find the rules regarding what I can and cannot do to my own house!!!!
[Edited on 26/11/05 by Surrey Dave]
[Edited on 26/11/05 by Surrey Dave]
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Deckman001
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 03:33 PM |
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You can ask GasGasGas (Paul) he fits/services them for a living !!
Jason
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zilspeed
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
you also have to comply with building regs regarding how and where you notch joists etc...
The only position to do this absolutely corrrectly is in the neutral axis - right in the centre of the joist.
I won't speak out of turn here in regards to what I see in practice
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Ferg
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:24 PM |
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Aaaaaaaagghhhh!!!
When notching joists it should ALWAYS be in the second 10% of the joists supported span on the top surface and not within 100mm of any bolt securing
joists together.
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Ferg
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
anyway if tradesman hadnt got so greedy over the last couple of years it wouldnt be worth trying to do it yourself anyway.my labour costs went up 25%
between costing the biuld in late 2003 and starting in jan 2004
Take care with suggesting the reasons behind rising prices charged by
Plumbers. The regulations which must be complied with require training and certification which not only costs a ridiculous amount, but also requires
time off work which adds to the REAL tradesman's cost.
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fesycresy
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:28 PM |
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Pop into you local Plumb Centre or PTS and ask them who does 'weekend work'.
Corgi registers fitters don't generally mind commisioning the work as long as they've done the gas and flue (the bits that kill).
I'm industrial and commercial and refuse to commission anyones work. The ACS is a joke and costs a fortune. Corgi is the law in this trade and
without your registration you are out of business.
By the way, domestic boilers should be registered. Unless you lose the card
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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Ferg
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
So you disagree then Ferg ?
P.S. You wouldn't seriously be interested in fixing someone elses f**k ups would you ?
No I wouldn't be interested John, I just think the comment about losing out on wages was the comment of someone perhaps sadly ill-informed.
I spend a lot of my time answering people's queries about heating and gaswork both on 'Net forums and in the real world for nothing. Maybe
I should sit at home and count my money instead.
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froggy
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:48 PM |
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i dont doubt that the cost of keeping up with all the current regs isnt valid when pricing but all the info i used to fit my unvented system came
from the manufacturer and the nhbc manual ,ileft the flue and gas pipe to the plumber. im not blaming anyone for charging what they can . its getting
to the point that you wont be allowed to do anything at home apart from wallpaper unless your a big housebuilder and then you can build any old
rubbish and still get it passed by the nhbc unlike the selfbiulder who gets it all checked twice by the council and structurall warranty people
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Ferg
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 04:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
all the info i used to fit my unvented system came from the manufacturer and the nhbc manual
And I take it you are certificated to fit the
unvented system????? If not it contravenes building regs......
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froggy
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 05:11 PM |
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thats my point its all tested and cert,d by the plumber nothing is hidden so why shouldnt i have done it? its all as it should be be ,im not a
qualified welder but i still repair cars every day .i fully agree you dont touch gas at all fair enough but where will it end? will you need to get a
licence to own a plasterers trowel! the sva is a good example, we build a car to the best of our abilities and someone inpects it and says yes or no
as long as it meets the reqiured standard ,how many of us are fully qualified to build a car?
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APR
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 05:11 PM |
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so called weekend work people would not be corgi as it only covers them for the work they do for there company, and the boiler now has to be
registered with corgi/building control once installed.i carry out work in surry and corgi registered.and money wise look at what other trades charge
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zilspeed
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| posted on 26/11/05 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ferg
Aaaaaaaagghhhh!!!
When notching joists it should ALWAYS be in the second 10% of the joists supported span on the top surface and not within 100mm of any bolt securing
joists together.
If you really must notch them yes, but drilling through the centre is better because it causes least reduction in strength as it's through the
neutral axis (neither compression or tension).
I know, I know - nobody does that.
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