EViS
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 12:15 AM |
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Manifolds & Exhaust - Need To Be Custom Made?
How and where would I get manifolds and an exhaust to fit a seven replica zetec build?
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Simon
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 12:31 AM |
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Same place most people do.
Use as much Zetec manifold as poss, then make up can and connecting pipework.
Weld together and fit.
Failing that, Robin Hood sell exhausts but you may have to make the connection from Zetec to side pipe.
ATB
Simon
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omega0684
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 01:03 AM |
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try mk engineering, they do custom manifolds for kit cars
I love Pinto's, even if i did get mine from P&O!
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indykid
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 01:13 AM |
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yep, martin's your man. real quality.
he spends most of his time in the workshop, so if you want a response, don't email him, ring.
tom
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Danozeman
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 06:18 AM |
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I got mine from fisher sportscars. Well made but wil need a bit of polishing to make it shiney again.
I know big wasa got his from Tiger. He said the finish wasnt the best. I think you get what you pay for with exhuausts. If u get a cheap manifold
u will have to work a bit to get it up nice.
Most people will say the MK one is very good quality.
This is big wasa's
Linky
[Edited on 24/3/06 by Danozeman]
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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Humbug
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 07:21 AM |
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It may be a bit out of your way but I had good (and good value) service from Powerspeed near Ashford in Kent
http://www.powerspeed.co.uk/
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Mike S
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 08:03 AM |
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Powerspeed did a custom job for me.
Very pleased with it.
It was a tad expensive, but it is all in stainless, and complete with high flow Cat. and a tricky install.
Mike
There are more horses' asses in this world than there are horses
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 08:59 AM |
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Soapbox time!!!
I have a real bug in my bonnet about exhaust manifolds.
There is a huge amount of crap out there in the 7 market.
A proper decent manifold that actually performs on the dyno/rolling road will cost you at least £500 for a zetec unless you make it yourself.
There are a lot of circa £300 systems out there, which are licely made and lovely and shiny, but don't actually work!!
They have unequal length pipes because they were made to fit and bend easily, not to have equal lengths of the correct length for the engine that they
are fitted to.
For my XE engine I am making the manifold, because the only manifolds that I would consider buying are £700+ ( Simpson Exhausts and SDW light fab are
the two that I have spoken to and make really good manifolds. Have a look at Ned's website on here for their work) MNR also do nice equal length
systems, but again they have to be priced up to order, and made to fit on a one off basis, they are not an off-the -shelf item and as such cost a
lot.
If you are happy with something that is shiny and looks nice and neat then you can get some really good stuff for £300.
If you want to optimise what your engine is doing, and have a manifold that works, either make it or spend £500+
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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ned
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 09:20 AM |
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In agreeance with NS Dev, why spend money on the engine to strangle it with an un-optimised exhaust system. Here is a pic of a tiger with a zetec that
Simpons (http://www.simpsonraceexhausts.com) had in when I collected mine a couple of weeks ago - buty be warned they are imho one of if not the best
out there and are not cheap:
 
zetec tiger
Ned.
ps i notice your location says london - simpsons are easy to get to just off the m4 near langley/slough. bear this in mind with the hastle/expense of
taking your car up north for a cheaper system to be made.
[Edited on 24/3/06 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 11:18 AM |
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I bought my Pinto system off Mac#1. Quality system and designed using the lengths recommended by David Vizard. I looked into the locost options and
for the same reasons posted by Nat decided if it was worth doing you might as well have one that flows properly. They have just bought a fantastic
tube bender and have done some really nice bike systems recently. Zetec is one of their factory standard turn key cars so they may have one off the
shelf. Id recommend giving them a call.
If you do call them just enquire about the fit for a standard chassis as the Mac#1 chassis allows the engine to sit further back than normal which
means the distance from head to chassis is longer than standard. This in theory should be ok for an engine in std position. (hope that makes sense).
if it is a problem im sure they can make you one at a good price to fit your install.
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EViS
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 11:28 AM |
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Bloody hell, didn\'t realise they would be that expensive... and it\'s not guaranteed that one purchased from ebay will fit too well on
a different chassis than originally designed for?
But would a manifold designed for a zetec 2.0 still fit a 1.6 or 1.8?
Also, would a sierra haynes manual tell me how to fit the manifold and what washers/seals/etc to use?
[Edited on 24/3/06 by EViS]
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ned
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 12:10 PM |
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imho unless you're using an engine in a standard manufaturer's chassis with the standard manufacturers engine mounts ie engine location
then the only exhaust system guaranteed to fit 'off the shelf' should be the one supplied by that manufacturer. Anything sourced elsewhere
will never be guaranteed to ftit and although might be cheaper would most likely require work or bodging/compromise/alterations.
If you don't like the manufacturer's standard system or you have a non standard engine or engine location in the chassis then you need one
making up to suit the car/chassis.
This of course all depends on your budget, opinion and intentions/use for/of the car at the end of the day.
all imho
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 12:40 PM |
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Ditto what Ned said. As i mentioned before i could have fabricated a manifold of sorts but that would have been a major compromise on efficiency. I
too couldnt justify the cost of a proper system at first but after buying one.... well iam chuffed to bits. The other aspect to consider is that a
good exhaust system is also a major cosmetic part of the car. Iam very biassed but think that my car looks a whole load better for having the system
fitted. It sounds fantastic without being too loud so i also dont have any concerns at the tracks. At SVA it was approx 93dB.
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EViS
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 04:51 PM |
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Although slightly off topic, besides the manifolds, what other 'accessories' should i expect to cost a fair amount?
Also, someone mentioned a manifold with a cat installation, i assume that i will need this to pass sva on an engine dated after september 1998?
In regards to the exhaust to fit the manifold, do all exhausts of the 7-type fit? Or again would i have to get something made up?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 24/3/06 at 05:16 PM |
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Think that's a bit unfair ??
The last exhaust manifold I had made for a mere budget £300 (less actually) was made with equal lengths, the same lengths that Mr Honda used
originally so i have too assume a little dyno time went into it somewhere along the line, but bent too suit my application.
Will shortly be going too the same place too have another made now the engine is further forward and lower in the chassis, this one too will replicate
Mr Honda's original lengths so helpfully perform a little better than crap.
If we are talking optimising an system on the dyno too suit a one off application then I don't think £500 will cover it, nor £700, you would be
well into 4 figures..
There are the four primays too mess with too get the optimum length, silencer, secondary, 4-2-1, 4-1, the list is endless distance between
collectors, silencers, overhaul lengths, then there is the fueling too consider, sorry but you ain't getting that amount of fabrication and dyno
time for less than a queens ransom, Dyno proven exhausts taken too the extreme can only truly claim too work with the same set up as that used on the
dyno, which takes me back too beginning of the post..................
I copied Mr Hondas design, copied his lengths, gaps between collectors silencers ect assuming he got it pretty close in the 1st place for the princely
sum of under £300, found this too be the best compromise for me.
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EViS
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 01:01 PM |
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Does that £300 include the making of both the below (examples)?
 and
[Edited on 25/3/06 by EViS]
[Edited on 25/3/06 by EViS]
[Edited on 25/3/06 by EViS]
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procomp
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 04:28 PM |
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Hi nsdev and ned are spot on there are some manifolds out there for good money and also look good but if its to be done right its not just equal
lengths and right lenghts only that are important as the collectors make a big difference and one favored supplier has absoloutly no idea what they
are doing as 2 of thier manifolds ive seen on a dyno kill horse power like you cant belive due to collectors being far to short infact they almost
merge a 180 degrees to each other. But then they are stainless and to the average person look good and shiney just a shame there crap on
performance.
some times spending that little bit extra is well worth it .
cheers matt
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EViS
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 07:50 PM |
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Can I not simply use the manifolds from a donor cars engine on my 7 build?
Or are these manifolds usually the poor quality ones which reduce bhp, and customized ones need to be made to increase bhp from the manufacturers
original spec? Thus buying such new manifolds is regarded as tuning an engine and not generally considered on by-the-book budget builds?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 08:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi nsdev and ned are spot on there are some manifolds out there for good money and also look good but if its to be done right its not just equal
lengths and right lenghts only that are important as the collectors make a big difference and one favored supplier has absoloutly no idea what they
are doing as 2 of thier manifolds ive seen on a dyno kill horse power like you cant belive due to collectors being far to short infact they almost
merge a 180 degrees to each other. But then they are stainless and to the average person look good and shiney just a shame there crap on
performance.
some times spending that little bit extra is well worth it .
cheers matt
Sorry, missed that bit and 100% agree, collectors are just as important as is any potential restriction ect........
all I was trying to say is provided you copy (in the case of becs anyway) pretty much the lengths, gaps between "collectors" (pref nice
free flowing ones) and silencers ect you wont be too far of the mark as plenty of development will have gone into it already, you don't get
140bhp from 900cc without someone getting summat rite ?
I was also trying too say but not very well that £700 + wont get you a dyno proven system for your car, it will get you a copy off one used on a
similar engine set up but not yours, which takes you back too, in my case copy Mr Hondas orgional set up. One last point, I dont go for nice n shiney
exaust, one its all under the bodywork and cant be seen and two, its covered in exhaust wrap so cant be seen when bodywork's off..........
Remember the question was also about "custom made" manifolds, not after market or kit supplier supplied ones
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EViS
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 08:55 PM |
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To slightly rephrase the question now however, will I NEED a custom made manifold or can I for now just use the one already fitted to the engine by
the manufacturer?
Also, will the 4 exhaust pipes that connect to the manifold be different from engine to engine? Or is the spacing between each manifold the same on
every engine?
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ned
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 11:12 PM |
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exhaust port spacing will be different from engine to engine, depending on bore size, spacing and port type/shape etc.
re using original manufacturers exhaust, if you are meaning say a sierra exhaust then apart from it having a nasty heavy cast header collecting in a
single pipe the dimensions of the engine bays are very different and it simply would not fit without a lot of work.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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EViS
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 11:24 PM |
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In that case, how possibly can kit car manufacturers such as Luego and MNR sell exhausts, if each one of their clients is bound to be using different
engines...
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ned
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| posted on 25/3/06 at 11:47 PM |
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kitcar companies normally are able to supply exhausts for the most popular engines (most fords eg pinto/zetec, popular bike engines etc) or some
manufcaturers specialise in certain engines eg shawpseed and zetec se, raw the 4age etc.
the exhaust manufacturer will only have to do one install for an engine in a car to have the jigs to be able to do many more identical ones, so once
they've done one of that type of engine in that chassis they have the pattern.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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EViS
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 12:02 AM |
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Right so as i understand it, for now I will NOT need to splash out on a new pair of manifolds, the standard manufacturer ones sold with the engine
will be fine?
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Simon
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 12:36 AM |
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Yes.
See first reply to your question!
ATB
Simon
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