Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:11 PM |
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Is the Ecu a known good unit?, I know it's wasted spark but maybe worth a check? Injectors clean? fuel rail/line not blocked? Signal at
injectors correct?
Are you getting a spark on the duff side? Not sure if that's covered in earlier posts but I couldn't see it.
Spent ages fiddling with a tps sensor and my MJ only to realise the MJ was faulty.
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perksy
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:16 PM |
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Tried Noid lights at the injector connectors of the affected cylinders ?
Tested for a good spark at the affected cylinders ?
How did the Easy start fluid go ?
Sorry if already been asked, Just sped read the thread
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:25 PM |
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I've tried two different megasquirts on it , and tried them both on my car - they work fine on mine , but just the three cylinders on this one
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I've lifted the fuel rail out still connected (cable ties holding the injectors in after firing one across the drive....) , cranked it over on
the starter with a clean piece of cardboard under it - priming pulse , then regular squirts while cranking........and the plugs come out wet .
The sparks are a bit weak on the duff side - cant understand that , as when I put the whole coil and lead setup on mine it ran fine .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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mark chandler
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:29 PM |
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From the notes above
1 bank runs, the other is dead
It's running in batch mode so fuelling is not tied to crank position.
When you swapped the injection plugs over it made no difference, same bank still dead.
It runs wasted spark, as it runs on three cylinders timing cannot be an issue, it would be completely dead or run roughly on all cylinders.
You have substituted most of the bits from your known good car.
I had an XK8, if you flooded the engine it would not start, if you did manage to get it going on a few cylinders the others would not cut in, the fix
was to take out all the plugs and dry, then squirt a little oil into each cylinder to maximise compression then it would start straight away.
Back to basics then and try and exclude stuff.
Plugs out, if possible replace with known good ones, squirt of oil in each bore and try and start with all injectors unplugged, just spray fuel into
the throttle bodies working down each side.
If it is still completely dead on one side you must have got HT leads in the wrong order or something mechanical is amiss, waste spark proves the HT
side.
Time then to whip off the cam covers and look for correct timing by lobe position and bucket gap to isolate possible bent valves.
On a separate note, it's a lovely neat install 
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:39 PM |
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Plugs.....I ran mine up till it was warm , then swapped the plugs and no change.......then put the `duff' plugs in mine , and ran them up to
temp.......
Firing order has to be right - the coil and lead set works fine on mine ?
Checking cam timing by lobe position is tricky as it has contra-rotating cams , so they look wrong when they are right 
And a leakdown test showed all six cylinders to near as dammit the same , so ruled out bent valves
[Edited on 17/11/13 by clairetoo]
[Edited on 17/11/13 by clairetoo]
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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mark chandler
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:48 PM |
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The jaguar engines that suffered from poor starting were the ones with nikasil linings.
A quick google shows that the Mazda V6 also has nikasil liners, one if the first symptoms of failure of the nikasil lining is failure to start which
you prove with a squirt of oil down the bore, also applies if the engine has not been started for a while.
It's because nikasil does not hold oil like a cast liner so you lose all compression, it will not start with cranking on the duff cylinders
because the petrol washes the bore and makes things worse.
Squirt 10cc of oil in each failing bore, I managed to burn out a starter motor on my XK8 as I could not get it to start one day....... I thought the
ECU must have gone until I learnt this trick.
Regards Mark
[Edited on 17/11/13 by mark chandler]
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ashg
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:51 PM |
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try increasing the fuel pressure. are you sure the return on one side is not starving the other? see if the bad side will run with the fuel blocked
off to the good side.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:00 PM |
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The KL has cast iron liners - not very thick , but you can get +40 pistons so they are definatly re-boreable .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ashg
try increasing the fuel pressure. are you sure the return on one side is not starving the other? see if the bad side will run with the fuel blocked
off to the good side.
Since the return goes to the FPR , the whole system has the same pressure - one rail cant be at a different pressure ?
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Bare
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:14 PM |
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Gasoline engines ALL require: fuel, air compression And spark to fire. Yours is clearly missing one of those elements
Do a compression test .. a Cheap tester is 'good enough'
Which cyls are linked on wasted spark?
Gawd! wasted spark is such a Mickey Mouse setup.. found on early 80's motorcycles, cuz it saved a few $ parts costs...basically.
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02GF74
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Firing order has to be right - the coil and lead set works fine on mine ?
Is it possible it has different crank to yours so firing order is different?
can you turn the engine by hand and by watching the valves figure out the firing order?
this engine was a runner before right?
can your remove all plugs (to make it easier for engine to turn over) but for one plug on the dead bank and crank over - swap the coil pack to go
through all permutations - one of them surely has to make the engine fire?
as you know, the cylinder on one bank fires follwed by its counter part on the other bank so the rods must share the same journal hence unlikely to be
more than one variant of crank.
you definitely not got the duff cam 180 degrees out? it will give compression, no valve clash etc. but be on incorrect stroke... unless you are
saying the waster spark takes place on the compression and exhaust stroke... in whcih case is something else. .
[Edited on 17/11/13 by 02GF74]
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:34 PM |
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If the firing order was different to mine , it wouldnt run at all.........
And no , the engine hasnt run before (in this car) - but it has been faffing around on three cylinders for a week now
Untill it runs right I cant move on to finishing the rest of the car........
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Gawd! wasted spark is such a Mickey Mouse setup.. found on early 80's motorcycles, cuz it saved a few $ parts costs...basically.
Also found on millions of production cars...
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snakebelly
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:51 PM |
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You said the spark is a bit weak on the non firing side, surely that must be worth investigating, run a temporay earth to the head on that side to see
if the spark improves?
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snakebelly
You said the spark is a bit weak on the non firing side, surely that must be worth investigating, run a temporay earth to the head on that side to see
if the spark improves?
I checked the spark by earthing the plug to the chassis.........
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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scimjim
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 09:58 PM |
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In addition to fuel, compression and ignition, they need to occur in the correct sequence.
You have ruled out fuel, compression and spark - so I reckon it must be timing?
I know nothing about the KL but a quick google says that the cams are numbered? If you've not had it running, perhaps someone has put it back
together wrong?
421 = Rear Inlet cam
431 = Front Inlet Cam
441 = Rear Exhaust Cam
451 = Front Exhaust cam (also has slots on the end for the distributor)
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gallons perminute
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 10:04 PM |
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Is this not the engine that the cam lobes are "pressed" in place over a tube? Sounds crazy but take the cam covers off and see if the
lobes are actually opening the valves. A friend had this very problem with one bank of cylinders and it was because the tube that is the camshaft lost
the fit with the lobes and as a result just turned.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 10:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gallons perminute
Is this not the engine that the cam lobes are "pressed" in place over a tube? Sounds crazy but take the cam covers off and see if the
lobes are actually opening the valves. A friend had this very problem with one bank of cylinders and it was because the tube that is the camshaft lost
the fit with the lobes and as a result just turned.
Not in this engine........cams are solid cast iron !
The engine certainly didnt look as if it had been apart , but if I pull the cam covers I'll check the right cams are in the right places .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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owelly
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 10:27 PM |
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I'm just trying to get my fuzzy sleep-deprived haed around this so bear with me....
The wasted sparks still need to be in the right place so iis it possible that they are in the right place on one bank, but not the other? Perhaps the
TDC on the trigger wheel has been timed to the wrong bank. There should be a timing difference equal to the angle of the 'V'.
If that makes no sense just treat as if it was a response from Bare.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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scimjim
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 10:42 PM |
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BTW, love the install - followed your original thread all the way through! Just installing an mx5 engine into a Scimitar SS1, so you know where that
logically leads to 
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r1_pete
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| posted on 18/11/13 at 09:30 AM |
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Does this engine have VVT?
I had a problem a couple of weeks ago where the vvt was stuck 'advanced' and the engine turned over as if there were no compression. If
the failing bank is stuck, it could be your problem.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 18/11/13 at 09:33 AM |
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You haven't got the live and earth wires on the injectors the wrong way round on that bank have you? Pretty much the only thing I can think of
that hasn't been mentioned, and you would still get squirts of fuel out when testing - just at the wrong time for the cylinders to use it!
Good luck
Hugh
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puma931
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| posted on 18/11/13 at 09:49 AM |
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I remember years ago trying to get a 944 to run, and it turned out to be a faulty reconditioned starter motor that was turning the engine over the
wrong way! I am sure you have checked, but is the engine turnover over in the correct direction??
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 18/11/13 at 03:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
You haven't got the live and earth wires on the injectors the wrong way round on that bank have you? Pretty much the only thing I can think of
that hasn't been mentioned, and you would still get squirts of fuel out when testing - just at the wrong time for the cylinders to use it!
Good luck
Hugh
Injector polarity on electromagnetic actuated injectors typically makes no difference. Some injectors have the polarity marked as a simple diagnostic
aid (i.e. so you can see which side is switched and which is ignition switched live), but internally the injector is just a simple solenoid so
it's not sensitive to polarity.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 18/11/13 at 04:14 PM |
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You are right, I was thinking the magnetic field would be reversed so the movement would be, but that is not the case here.
Sorry about that.
Hugh
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