jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:18 PM |
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quote:
I would suspect that these seats would be given up once Scotland I declared a sovereign state though.
Trust me when I say they will be escorted to the border.
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
NHS is easy, NHS Scotland is a separate entity for which all the budgets and control where devolved several years ago (funny how they Yes campaign
blame the English for their NHS....)
Just to be clear - the amount of money made available for NHS Scotland is set and delivered by Westminster. The complaint is not what is done with
it, but that it is not enough in the first place... especially when weighed against what is spent on the likes of Trident, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
The Department of Health had a £110 billion in 2013-14, most of this being spent on the NHS.
NHS Scotland had an operating budget of £11.9 billion in 2012–13, up from £11.35 billion during 2010-11
Looks like more than the 9% of population that lives in Scotland...
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Everyone in Scotland will be millionaires this time in 2 weeks and they wont have to spend anything anyway because everything will be free, paid for
by the limitless oil reserves in the North Sea 
That seems to be the message being fed to the tabloid reading Jeremy Kyle watching 'common man' in return for their vote. There are going
to be some very disappointed faces!
There's too much focus on oil and gas. Most respected economists agree that Scotland would still be able to function perfectly well
without the oil and gas industry.
It's a bonus... something to use to get over the transition period, and then to invest wisely (particularly in renewable energy schemes) for
rainy days ahead. It's a great asset to have... yet it's being painted (by some) as some kind of millstone around Scotlands neck.
Scotland still has income streams from tangible resources like agriculture, fishing, renewable energies, food and drink (whisky), construction,
electronics and textiles... oh, and still some reasonable fossil fuel reserves. There's also a very healthy tourism industry to add to the mix
and a recovering financial service sector that has hopefully learned from it's previous mistakes.
More than enough for a nation of just over 5 million people.
The UK as it stands however is much more reliant on 'services'. It forms 77% of our GDP. This is not a tangible income steam. It's
not real. It can be destabilised in an instant by events thousands of miles away, and is not a sensible main source of income for a nation of 63
million.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
NHS is easy, NHS Scotland is a separate entity for which all the budgets and control where devolved several years ago (funny how they Yes campaign
blame the English for their NHS....)
Just to be clear - the amount of money made available for NHS Scotland is set and delivered by Westminster. The complaint is not what is done with
it, but that it is not enough in the first place... especially when weighed against what is spent on the likes of Trident, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
The Department of Health had a £110 billion in 2013-14, most of this being spent on the NHS.
NHS Scotland had an operating budget of £11.9 billion in 2012–13, up from £11.35 billion during 2010-11
Looks like more than the 9% of population that lives in Scotland...
1+1=3
You've compared a department of Health budget for 2013/14, to a NHS Scotland Operating budget for 2012/13, and then made mention of the 2010/11
budget. Could you perhaps draw some conclusions by comparing the national budgets of 2010/11, 2012/13, and 2013/14 to the devolved budgets in the
same year (2010/11, 2012/13, and 2013/14).
It's Evolution Baby!
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:33 PM |
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As I said....bored with the whole thing. It is like listening to an ex-wife going on about how she will be better off without you...well just get on
with it then.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:43 PM |
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As a resident I was fully open to the idea of independence however I've been on the side of no from the start and am firmly camped now in the No
camp.
The reason for this? Simple there are No Hard Facts! None. It's all projection this, projection that, maybe we could do this, maybe we could do
that, and it goes on and on and on.........
It's like someone telling you to buy a house without even seeing it. A life changing decision without no Hard facts to help you decide.
It's ridiculous, this referendum has been on the cards for years. Surely issues surrounding currency, eu membership, immigration, defence,
national debt etc etc should have been sorted ages ago allowing the voting public to make an informed decision on the future of the country. It
actually infuriates me that both sides are so poorly prepared for this. And the 2 characters leading the charge, el presidente salmon and Alastair
"no charisma" darling, seriously? What a pair of plonkers. They should have sent Boris up to lead the No campaign
To be honest I can't wait for the whole thing to be over and I'm hoping the sensible people make their way to the polling stations and we
wake up part of the union the next morning
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
As a resident I was fully open to the idea of independence however I've been on the side of no from the start and am firmly camped now in the No
camp.
The reason for this? Simple there are No Hard Facts! None. It's all projection this, projection that, maybe we could do this, maybe we could do
that, and it goes on and on and on.........
It's like someone telling you to buy a house without even seeing it. A life changing decision without no Hard facts to help you decide.
It's ridiculous, this referendum has been on the cards for years. Surely issues surrounding currency, eu membership, immigration, defence,
national debt etc etc should have been sorted ages ago allowing the voting public to make an informed decision on the future of the country. It
actually infuriates me that both sides are so poorly prepared for this. And the 2 characters leading the charge, el presidente salmon and Alastair
"no charisma" darling, seriously? What a pair of plonkers. They should have sent Boris up to lead the No campaign
It's always the 'Yes' side that's asked for hard facts and projections. Where are the 'Better Together' hard
facts and long term projections for the UK as it stands? There are none, and that's because no-one can see all that far into the future!
I'll take a shot though and try to envisage the UK in 2016... a Tory / UKIP alliance where Boris is the PM and Farage his Deputy. A buffoon and
a fascist in charge of a sinking ship that's been cut adrift from the EU following the promised 'In/Out' referendum. This would be
a disaster... particularly for rural Britain.
As for the issues surrounding EU membership... well, the UK government can take full responsibility for the obfuscation of this issue! All that is
required is for PM Cameron to ask Brussels the question and there would be a straight answer. HE HAS REFUSED TO DO THIS! Most probably because he
knows what the answer will be and it doesn't suit his agenda.
It's Evolution Baby!
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:23 PM |
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And el salmon couldn't ask this question? Hmm I'm sure he could.
If there was fact and honest answers regarding finances and the key issues I would be interested, until that happens how on earth can I make a
decision??? It's absurd to vote when there's no hard facts. I'm sorry but if you vote on the basis of theories and guesswork then
you are incredibly foolish.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:24 PM |
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So what happens at the Holyrood Parliment post yes...
In the event of a post Yes situation the political parties will evolve and regroup, a Scottish Conservative party may find its feet again probably a
bit to the left of the England and Wales party , the Scottish Labour party probably won't change much but will regain some support, the Scottish
Lib-Dems less tarnished than the Westminster Lib-Dems will survive. The SNP is likely to shrink and may splinter but will go on.
Holyrood unlike Westminster or the Welsh ans NI assemblies work surprisingly well, it passes legislation quickly effectively because the major
parties have to work together and hammer out any issues before any bill goes before the parliament.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Badger_McLetcher
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:25 PM |
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Not Scottish, voted no. We've done some awesome things as a union, I'd hope we've more (non-imperial) awesome to come. There is a
massive amount of uncertainty over what would happen with a Yes vote, one way or t'other.
I'd prefer to see the entire UK pull together and sort its poo out than it fragment, following the historical pattern of the collapse of most
empires. Would be nice to give historical pattern a kick in the teeth too. The Scots are not the only people who want to see the investment and focus
of power move away from London and the South East - in fact I'd wager it's only London and the South East that don't 
A final note on the Scottish politicians in Westminster - I think in the case of a Yes vote they would have a massive conflict of interest, given
that they would be negotiating for the best terms for an independent Scotland. They should at least have their power limited only to issues that
directly affect Scotland.
The choice is that of the Scottish people, I wish them the best either way.
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
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watsonpj
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:29 PM |
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Scootz I'm interested how you get to this statement
"Scotlands share of the National Debt is currently thought to be £23 billion. "
The current Uk debt is >1,400Billion so if the figures are done by capita then this figure is a fair bit more than £23Billion so it may take a bit
longer to pay off.
Also the notion that I don't have the currency (£) means I don't have the debt is great in theory but in reality the debt will still exist
and the UK gov said they will shoulder it. The markets however will see a fledgling country effectively defaulting on what it owes which doesnt seem a
good way to start and will make for hard times when trying to borrow which will have to be immediately I suspect.
I personally don't want to see the breaking of the union but I understand that people get peed off with what is happening not just in scotland
but in the whole of the Uk. The problem I see is that the spin as usually as over taken the facts and its almost impossible to see the truth in the
figures.
I think Alex has a much easier job to sell the new and shiny over the "no campaign" this is it take it or leave it, and trying to offer
more powers at the 11th hour was always going to be seen as negative.
If scotland goes who may follow? We may have to pay import duty on pasties
Pete
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
And el salmon couldn't ask this question? Hmm I'm sure he could.
No... he can't. It's a well discussed point and the answer is that ONLY the UK Government can ask the question.
It's Evolution Baby!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
And el salmon couldn't ask this question? Hmm I'm sure he could.
If there was fact and honest answers regarding finances and the key issues I would be interested, until that happens how on earth can I make a
decision??? It's absurd to vote when there's no hard facts. I'm sorry but if you vote on the basis of theories and guesswork then
you are incredibly foolish.
Alex Salmond can't ask the question because by EU law it has to asked be the premier of current full member of the EU.
David Cameron won't ask the question because the political golden rule of asking question is; Don't ask a question unless you already
know the answer and the answer suits your purpose.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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watsonpj
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:41 PM |
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And thats the Alex Salmon reply
"thought to be £100 million..." the darling version would of course be £100 Trilion
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by watsonpj
Scootz I'm interested how you get to this statement
"Scotlands share of the National Debt is currently thought to be £23 billion. "
Not sure myself!
It is indeed wrong... apologies!
Scotlands share of the national debt is presently thought to be £100 billion...
It's Evolution Baby!
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ali f27
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 05:42 PM |
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I can understand lots of people in scotland being disillusioned with westminster very little progress has been made in my lifetime both major
political partys have had chances to take the country forward both have failed miserably it begs me to ask the question what has Scotland to lose . I
live in Cumbria and considerable numbers of people here think that because westminster think england stops at manchester maybe in the future our
future may be better with an independent Scotland. I was for most of my working life a civil enginerring contractor and worked all over Scotland there
allways seemed to be and intrest in developing the inferstructure I can undertstand the desire to break free from the city of london and the fragile
economy we have if you study it we have an economy based on gambling waht ever Scotland decides good luck to them.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
I can understand lots of people in scotland being disillusioned with westminster very little progress has been made in my lifetime both major
political partys have had chances to take the country forward both have failed miserably it begs me to ask the question what has Scotland to lose . I
live in Cumbria and considerable numbers of people here think that because westminster think england stops at manchester maybe in the future our
future may be better with an independent Scotland. I was for most of my working life a civil enginerring contractor and worked all over Scotland there
allways seemed to be and intrest in developing the inferstructure I can undertstand the desire to break free from the city of london and the fragile
economy we have if you study it we have an economy based on gambling waht ever Scotland decides good luck to them.
Looking south I always have the impression that some perhaps a majority who live in the home counties consider Birmingham the far north.
It is true that many Welsh and Northern English cities in an even more neglected state than those in Scotland and it seems to me things are getting
worse rather than better.
For me a decision to vote Yes has been heavily influence by a total lack of confidence in those Downing Street.
I my eyes Cameron is just an uber-Blair but with different backers to pay off favours to and by the fact the downward spiral is likely to get worse
rather better.
I also frightened of the signs in England of the rise of the extreme right largely brought about by a lack of any kind of sensible control on
immigration, UKIP may seem a protest joke party at the moment but extreme right wing parties tend to gather momentum very quickly.
One other thing has influenced my decision, the No Campaign has at times had downright nasty tone and not really engaged with the issues that really
concern those who have to make the choice.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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graememk
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:18 PM |
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My mother and family is Scottish and she felt the need to spell my name "Graeme" in the northern way, I can say I wish things to stay as
they are, I don't see any benefit to leaving the UK.
If Scotland left the uk, I for one will be avoiding buying goods from them, any trips to see family will involve me being very careful not to spend
any more money than necessary that side of the boarder.
now if many other people also do the same this would I assume bugger up there estimated figures quite a bit as to how much spare cash they have to run
the country.
I can live without salmon, Edinburgh woollen mill, scotch, and 3in1 oil.
now as "most" of my family are well educated people they are in general voting to stay in the uk, I only have a few Jeremy kyle family
members who bleat on about Maggie thatcher, coal mines and the 70's blar blar blar and to be honest as long as the benefits still come
they'll vote to whoever promises them money to keep there council house in large screen tv's
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graememk
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:32 PM |
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or we could wait for Scotland to get independence, then wait 6 months for scootz to sell the place on ebay
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AdrianH
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
I live in Cumbria and considerable numbers of people here think that because westminster think england stops at manchester maybe in the future our
future may be better with an independent Scotland.
I have to disagree with your thoughts here. Most of Westminster thinks England stops at the outskirts of London. Where the Financial institutions
are:
If independence gains the most votes then fine. We have the Welsh Assembly, Ireland is independent, we even have the Isle of Man Parliament for
goodness sake. So no more crying about it every section wants to set their own rules for the benefit of their bit of country. Just a pity we will be
left with the same bunch down south.
I have been putting English for Nationality for sometime now.
Adrian
[Edited on 9-9-14 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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ali f27
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:50 PM |
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What a strange comment i could do without salmon etc we the uk went to war with Germany and yet buy everthing German we can .Whts wrong with Scotland
wanting self determination westminster has failed them as it has the rest of us they have a chance to make things better wheres the
wrong in that
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:53 PM |
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I'm resident in England, Westminister does nothing for me, except perhaps to make me hope that we'll eventally find another way - other
than to embrace the sleazy political class.
Only interested in their own faces in their own troughs, I can see why 50% of the Scottish may well be disillusioned. However, I'm unsure that
to declare King Salmond is a good way forward. Unsure what is.
I've watched powerless as the sleaze balls feed themselves, invade and occupy oily foreign countries in the name of humanity. I've felt
sick at the City money printing (yes, the RBS bailouts too, massive Scottish greed/debt) that I work hard to provide.
The ONLY person I can see that entered Westminister with honourable intentions was Guy Fawkes.
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
or we could wait for Scotland to get independence, then wait 6 months for scootz to sell the place on ebay
That made me snigger...
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ali f27
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 06:58 PM |
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Lots of people would find it difficult to live without tunnocks tea cakes
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JC
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 07:16 PM |
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What about the Putin solution? Let the scots become independent, and then invade and take it back!!!
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