jeffw
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 02:44 PM |
|
|
There is a guy on SKCC with a S2000 engine GBS so a number of people have done this reliable.
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Turner
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 03:06 PM |
|
|
Other than for bragging rights I cannot see why people have this fixation with huge amounts of power.
First thing is a lightweight car will struggle to put all that power down in a strait line let alone a corner.
The only place you can use it safely is on a trackday and then its still more pleasurable to get your lap times out of a good handling car than one
with pointless amounts of power.
I have had a Seven now for over 26 years. My first had a X-Flow with about 125 bhp. At that time I could thrash it on the road with little concern
about cameras and traffic patrols and have good fun. As time as gone by the roads have got busier and cameras prolific. I had a Zetec with 208 bhp in
the car for about 4 years but when that went pop due an oil pressure relief valve issue I replaced it with a standard engine producing about 175 bhp.
I do not miss the extra 33 bhp, in truth I hardly ever got the chance to use it except for the occasional track day.
My favourite road trip is still Cadwell early on a Sunday Morning. Its about 70 miles and back in the 80's I could get there in just under one
hour. Its all single carriageway roads except for a short bit of dual carriageway round Lincoln, to average 70 mph meant doing somewhat illegal
speeds. For the last 10 years its taken me about and hour and 20 minutes on a good day with both the 208 and 175 bhp engines. More power would not get
me there any faster so why pay stupid money for something you cannot use.
The Zetec in my car is a bog standard crate Blacktop with Jenvey TB's and an MBE ECU. The engine cost me £700, why pay more.
About 12 years ago an experienced driver turned up at Curborough with a Busa Turbo powered Dax, just over 300 BHP. It flew down the strait (barely
under control at times) but round the twisty bits it was a total dog. The £150 Zetec out of a scrapper I had in the car at the time was faster on a
lap. He was not happy.
Power is not always the answer.
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:23 PM |
|
|
I've been weighing up the options recently too, albeit my aspirations for power were a little lower at 200bhp. One thing that came into the
equation for me was 'what will it cost to replace the engine if it all goes pop?'
Zetec - anywhere from 100 to 700 for a brand new one
duratec - standard mondeo 250 to 500 for a fiesta st lump.
F20c - 1500-2500. Big differences.
Since this I've actually decided to go down the mx5 route. Partly because mnr were doing a cracking offer on a starter kit and secondly because
my donor engine is in excellent condition. I've been running the sums and for a solid reliable not too laggy 200bhp I'm looking at £1500
and if I get all pOwer hungry in the future it still has potential. Also replacement engines are plentiful and cheap as chips.
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:37 PM |
|
|
I'm looking to get the zetec built for under 3k..
Wossner pistons and rods £900
Block honed and decked £200??
Exhaust manifold £125
Turbo £160
Gaskets, belts etc £100
Valve springs £150??
3" exhaust £2/300??
Ecu, not sure, budget £800
££ means not sure on price..
Does this look realistic??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
ian locostzx9rc2
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:43 PM |
|
|
I changed my x flow for a 16v Toyota 4age now about 135 to 140 hp car weights with me in about 600 kgs plenty quick enough for the road and trackdays
part of the fun of trackdays in a lower powered car is being as quick as cars you really shouldn't be
 also the more hp you have the more expensive everything gets and things start breaking ..
|
|
|
wylliezx9r
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:43 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
I've been weighing up the options recently too, albeit my aspirations for power were a little lower at 200bhp. One thing that came into the
equation for me was 'what will it cost to replace the engine if it all goes pop?'
Zetec - anywhere from 100 to 700 for a brand new one
duratec - standard mondeo 250 to 500 for a fiesta st lump.
F20c - 1500-2500. Big differences.
Since this I've actually decided to go down the mx5 route. Partly because mnr were doing a cracking offer on a starter kit and secondly because
my donor engine is in excellent condition. I've been running the sums and for a solid reliable not too laggy 200bhp I'm looking at £1500
and if I get all pOwer hungry in the future it still has potential. Also replacement engines are plentiful and cheap as chips.
The S2000 F20C looks expensive until you price up a 240 bhp Duratec. And as I've said before you get a really sweet gearbox as well.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:47 PM |
|
|
If you break a damaged s2000 with low miles and in good order inside. You'll get the engine,6 speed box and 4.1 lsd for pretty much free!
When I did mine I think it had done 40k and was around £3k for the car. Electric roof,seats,body panels, etc are all worth good money to sell on,
I think Andrew Jackson on here may have a complete engine in his garage.send him a message and ask. Unijacko67
|
|
|
bigfoot4616
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 04:53 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Other than for bragging rights I cannot see why people have this fixation with huge amounts of power.
Power is not always the answer.
a bloke i know upgraded his caterham R400 engine to R500 spec and ended up selling it not long after claiming it was more fun to drive before hand.
i think if he'd kept it and got used to it he would of got as much fun out of it and quicker lap times but it goes to show you don't need
masses of power to have fun. i would of thought 250bhp in a light car is probably about right, its roughly what i would be aiming for if i moved away
from bike engines.
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 05:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by wylliezx9r
The S2000 F20C looks expensive until you price up a 240 bhp Duratec. And as I've said before you get a really sweet gearbox as well.
I totally agree. As a standard package the f20c is phenomenal if you can get a chassis to suit. And the potential gains from supercharging are
compelling. As already said gearboxes for the zetec and duratec for big power start getting expensive.
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 05:55 PM |
|
|
I can't see the need for supercharging or turbo in a 7 which is 240bhp to start with? You will never be able to use all the 240bhp on the public
highways without risking life or license! And on track it will be more than enough for a mere mortal.if it's a serious competition car,running
huge slicks etc then I can see instances where the power would be nice but other than that a standard s2000 would be ballistic! As would a standard
1000cc fireblade or similar in a light chassis
|
|
|
Davey D
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 07:07 PM |
|
|
For my next build some time in the future I'd love to build a 7 car with the engine/transmission/diff out of a jag s type with the 3.0 duratec
v6. 240bhp as standard, but removing all of the Unnecessary stuff ups the power a bit more
|
|
|
Mr C
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 07:36 PM |
|
|
Posted in the other thread, so cut a long story short.. as Jeff, S2000 with TTS kit fitted at some point.
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
|
|
|
matt5964
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 07:56 PM |
|
|
I have a crated zetec jenvey said, k6 emerald, dunnell head work, cams, arp, bigger injectors, light flywheel simpson exhaustetc and have 221.3 bhp
and 178.9ft/lb. could of had more but did not want to Larry on running costs and price as all that I've had done was reasonable price for N/A
Reliable all day done sever track days and plenty road driving. More than enough go
You can't beat N/A for noise,response or smile factor
Can highly recommend Paul at Dunnell, Dave at Emerald and Matt at Simpson
[Edited on 3/6/15 by matt5964]
Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft
|
|
|
Ugg10
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 08:04 PM |
|
|
No one has suggested one of my favourite engines - a tvr ajp8!
Very small and relatively light for a v8, 350-420hp all day, free t5 gearbox. Can be had for around £3-4k.
Woukd spund epic in a seven as well.
There is also the m3 straight six as fittec to the Gkd legend, this will stretch the budget though.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
|
|
|
Pojo
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 08:07 PM |
|
|
Hi Davey D
thats exactly what i am doing, lucky for me its in a luego viento, so plenty of room in the engine bay. Engine untouched apart from a clean, paint, X
type sump, new cam cover and sump gaskets.
[img][img]http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/2engine installed.jpg[/img[/img]
|
|
|
Pojo
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 08:09 PM |
|
|
With picture this time
[img]http:// [/img]
|
|
|
Ugg10
|
| posted on 3/6/15 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
Do you have a build blog ot website for the luego jag v6. I have a mate whi is putting one in a reliant scimitar who would be interested.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
|
|
|
Pojo
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 07:11 AM |
|
|
Hi Ugg 10
Sorry, no blog or website, happy to answer any questions and help in any way, he can U2U me or I can supply an email if he is not on this site. Happy
building everyone
|
|
|
bombero
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 09:31 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
I have a crated zetec jenvey said, k6 emerald, dunnell head work, cams, arp, bigger injectors, light flywheel simpson exhaustetc and have 221.3 bhp
and 178.9ft/lb. [Edited on 3/6/15 by matt5964]
O/T - Out of interest, what make and duration of cams are you running? Any pics..
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
You can't beat N/A for noise,response or smile factor
I would beg to differ....
I understand the N/A is best and you can't use more than 10BHP in a lightweight car on the road attitudes but....how many of the people with
these attitudes have driven a high power Rotrex car? I'm not talking Turbos with large torque spikes which spit you off the road but the
endless linear push you get from a Rotrex.
|
|
|
will121
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 12:03 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
You can't beat N/A for noise,response or smile factor
I would beg to differ....
I understand the N/A is best and you can't use more than 10BHP in a lightweight car on the road attitudes but....how many of the people with
these attitudes have driven a high power Rotrex car? I'm not talking Turbos with large torque spikes which spit you off the road but the
endless linear push you get from a Rotrex.
couldnt agree more, friend has a front wheel drive track day Clio with a Rotrex @380bhp, even though light weight and front wheel drive very
controlable and fastest thing ive ever been round Snetterton in
|
|
|
Mr C
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 01:10 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Other than for bragging rights I cannot see why people have this fixation with huge amounts of power.
A slightly different perspective on your viewspoint.. For me it's about the build and sense of achievement of doing something a little different
and challenging and wanting to do something more than a crate engine and throttle bodies, though this is no doubt the sensible option. I don!t
progress to be a good driver and gain my pleasures not other ways, including doing something a little different. If all goes to plan then the
satisfaction levels are immense. Not discounting the fact I'm a big lump and the extra power comes in handy keeping up with a well driven
sensible engined car. If it creates interest and is a discussion point then all well and good, though this isn't the primary purpose for me
supersizing the power levels.
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
|
|
|
Paul Turner
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 02:11 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr C
Not discounting the fact I'm a big lump and the extra power comes in handy keeping up with a well driven sensible engined car.
I sprinted and hill climbed form the late 80's until about 2002. During that period I won plenty of pots, classes in championships and held a
few class records as well. I never had the money to buy the most powerful engine, had a x-flow for virtually all my events, but with careful setting
up and big balls I managed to humble many a more powerful and much more expensive motor. A couple spring to mind.
One chap has successfully campaigned a car that was virtually identical to mine for several years over which it was pretty even on results. He bought
a BDA that had been successful in a single seater and came with a dyno sheet that showed it had 225 bhp at 11,000 rpm. It was virtually undriveable
but he did not listen to my suggestion to change the cams to something far more sensible. He changed the gearbox, diff, suspension all of which
improved it slightly but over 3 years he never got close to his old x-flow times and he never beat me. Eventually he decided the engine needed a
checkover and immediately the builder suggested he change the cams. To say he was disappointed with the dyno sheet was an understatement, from memory
he had lost 30 bhp but the power band had moved down and the torque was considerably improved. But within a couple of events not only was he thrashing
my times he was beating outright national class records. The car was basically easy to drive and did not try to kill him everytime he touched the
throttle. The better powerband meant it was easy to keep it on the cam. One happy punter who never had a yearning for power again.
Another chap had a bottomless pot of money and enjoyed spending it. He bought a car with a Swindon VX motor fitted, about 230 bhp, and was upset when
he failed to match mine and several other competitors times, we had about 150 to 170 bhp at the time. So the engine went back to Swindon and was fuel
injected, fitted with a better head, better cams and came back with almost 300 bhp. Still he could not beat us so he gave up and moved to circuit
racing. Had the same success there but spent far more money on repairs.
What I really enjoy watching is a N/A bike engined car thrashing mega powerful turbo engined cars simply because it handles and has sensible and
usable power. The driver can concentrate on the track instead of waiting for a rush of power coming in a rush trying to kill him. Much easier on both
car a driver.
You might be able to keep up in a strait line but road (and tracks) have things called corners and you need to be able to drive round those as
well.
If its your first kit keep it sensible. Perhaps you will enjoy the fact that with 170 bhp a Seven type car will leave most other cars on the road in
its dust.
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 03:29 PM |
|
|
So in short
crap driver + no power + ill handling car = loser
crap driver + lots of power + ill handling car= loser
driving god + xflow + well set-up car = winner
driving god + lots of power + well set-up car= big winner
With shades of grey in-between
Thanks for sorting that one out for me Paul.
[Edited on 4/6/15 by jeffw]
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 4/6/15 at 04:00 PM |
|
|
So, am I wasting my time looking for 350 turbo horses?
I've always wanted another turbo motor after my man Montego...
And Kurt has 420 bhp in his demo car...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
