bumpy
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 03:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Does the engine sound rattly as if its starving of oil? If so, something could be blocking the galleries close to the pump.
Engine sounds fine - no rattles. And I think if there was a blockage close to the pump then the gauge would read low not high.
[Edited on 14/4/21 by bumpy]
|
|
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 03:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Did you put gasket past in-between the pump and pick up or pump to block ? If so it could have part blocked a gallery
[Edited on 13/4/21 by jacko]
Any gasket paste was used VERY sparingly, so no chance of it blocking anything.
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 03:10 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
@Bumpy
Can you repost EXCACTLY what has been changed on or in the engine since the oil pressure was around 50psi until now its 90psi
I have had similar problems on a xflow, when the Prv wouldnt open but was more around 70psi at tickover
Absolutely nothing aside from the fact the car sat idle over a Winter lay up,
All other changes were made in an attempt to identify and rectify the abnormal behaviour in oil pressure.
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 03:25 PM |
|
|
Considering the pressure relief valve.
Old pump and new pump gave exactly the same readings
Specs say the PRV should open between 58 and 68 psi.
I guess that it is opening OK, and that pressure shown above this is because the pump must be designed to give some oil pressure within the engine
even then. If this were not the case then nobody would have an oil pressure reading of greater than 68psi ever.
[Edited on 14/4/21 by bumpy]
[Edited on 14/4/21 by bumpy]
[Edited on 14/4/21 by bumpy]
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 06:19 PM |
|
|
The prv opens when the pressure exceeds the specified amount. It then maintains that limit pressure. The only way you can get higher pressure is if it
doesn't open/operate
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 14/4/21 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
The prv opens when the pressure exceeds the specified amount. It then maintains that limit pressure. The only way you can get higher pressure is if it
doesn't open/operate
Agreed
You can lead a horse to water?
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 06:24 AM |
|
|
“ When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 07:04 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
The prv opens when the pressure exceeds the specified amount. It then maintains that limit pressure. The only way you can get higher pressure is if it
doesn't open/operate
So are you saying that any pinto engine that shows a pressure reading higher than 68 psi (which is the upper spec of the PRV) has a fault?
If this is the case I suspect there will be a lot of worried owners out there. 
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 10:37 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by bumpy
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
The prv opens when the pressure exceeds the specified amount. It then maintains that limit pressure. The only way you can get higher pressure is if it
doesn't open/operate
So are you saying that any pinto engine that shows a pressure reading higher than 68 psi (which is the upper spec of the PRV) has a fault?
If this is the case I suspect there will be a lot of worried owners out there.
^^^ basically yes
although there is bound to be an error of a few PSI either way on either the PRV, the gauge or both - but 90 PSI sounds like a problem 
quote:
Originally posted by bumpy
Old PRV was taken apart, and no sign whatsoever of it sticking
was there any extra shims in there or anything else that might have changed the pressure setting ?
[Edited on 15/4/2021 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 01:43 PM |
|
|
Nope neither pump had been tampered with. Namely an old one that spontaneously doubled its reading after a winter storage in a garage, and a brand now
one from Burtons.
[Edited on 15/4/21 by bumpy]
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 04:15 PM |
|
|
So lets have a recap on what i believe has gone on here
Car and Engine last year ran perfectly, good normal oil pressure conducive with a Pinto engine
NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THE ENGINE since last year ? and i really do mean NOTHING
Yet this year on first start up, the oil pressure has jumped to 90psi and remains there ?
and even with a NEW pump, the pressure is still 90 psi ?
From this we can discount the oil pumps, if two have been used, and verified by a couple of different guages,
and you say you replaced the two filters, why has your engine got two ?as ive never come across that,
The spin off filters have a valve in them, and i wonder if the one you have fitted is faulty (not sure how) but apart from OIL, and TWO ? Filters that
is the only work on the engine from last year, so i believe
My last point is, that running 90psi on the oil system is going to play havoc with the crankshaft end seals, but at least on a Pinto the spray bar and
valve train should be good !!
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 04:22 PM |
|
|
We seem to have got caught in a cyclic discussion where blame has been put on the PRV, so I would like to explore this problem from a different angle
if possible.
On the Pinto engine the Ford Motor Company and Autodata books specify an oil pressure of 37psi at 2000rpm with hot oil. This is a stated fact.
Now under just those conditions, my engine pressure, using a variety of matched senders and gauges, reads 75-80psi.
At the normal 37psi the PRV is not called into play at all, as its lower working limit of 58psi has not been reached. So even if it was welded shut it
would have no impact at all on that reading and cant be responsible for the 75-80psi
So I think we need to consider alternative possibilities for the high readings.
|
|
|
bumpy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 04:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
So lets have a recap on what i believe has gone on here
Car and Engine last year ran perfectly, good normal oil pressure conducive with a Pinto engine
NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THE ENGINE since last year ? and i really do mean NOTHING
Yet this year on first start up, the oil pressure has jumped to 90psi and remains there ?
and even with a NEW pump, the pressure is still 90 psi ?
From this we can discount the oil pumps, if two have been used, and verified by a couple of different guages,
and you say you replaced the two filters, why has your engine got two ?as ive never come across that,
The spin off filters have a valve in them, and i wonder if the one you have fitted is faulty (not sure how) but apart from OIL, and TWO ? Filters that
is the only work on the engine from last year, so i believe
My last point is, that running 90psi on the oil system is going to play havoc with the crankshaft end seals, but at least on a Pinto the spray bar and
valve train should be good !!
Sorry, I may not have made it clear, but the the engine only has the one standard oil filter. This was changed twice - hence the 'two'
"From this we can discount the oil pumps, if two have been used" This is the conclusion I draw in my last post and with it we can discount
the PRV.
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 06:13 PM |
|
|
^ as unlikley as it might be its not impossible that you could have 2 doggy pumps (or gauges for that matter)
maybe you could borrow another known working pump/gauge rule things out completely - where abouts in the world are you ?
-
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 06:34 PM |
|
|
Hi
If it’s not the pump s or gauges or oil filters what could it be only a blocked pipe / gallery you have said the cam pipe is ok but is it clear and
not blocked where it pushes into the block can you see oil coming up to the top and spraying oil on the tappers
I think we are grasping at straws on this one
Graham
|
|
|
Oddified
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 07:58 PM |
|
|
Is the oil filter fitted on the engine block as standard or are you using a remote filter/take off?. Is the oil pressure gauge fitted into the engine
block / T piece on the oil pressure switch?.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 15/4/21 at 09:56 PM |
|
|
This is why fitting an oil pressure warning light is better than a gauge. It prevents over analysing everything. The light goes out, it runs, f£ck
it...just drive the car.
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 16/4/21 at 06:19 PM |
|
|
Think about it like this -
The oil pressure is meant to be ~45-65 PSI depending on the PRV in the pump (ignoring the 75-80 PSI HP ones burtons offer)
Some things like cold oil, blocked filters/galleries, wrong oil - could all have an effect of raising the pressure - but none of them can take it
past what the pressure relief valve will allow (at least not by much or for long)
If the pressure builds through the system for any reason the PRV should open limiting it
Even if you could somehow have a pocket of high pressure oil somewhere on the engine (stuck behind some kind of one way valve) it can't ever be
higher than the PRV will allow - oil isn't going to flow from a low pressure area into a high pressure area
all this really only leaves 2 options - either the PRV isn't working correctly for some reason (set too high, stuck or the outlet blocked /
partially blocked)
or the gauges are reading incorrectly
short of you having a second secret oil pump somewhere in the engine - there really isn't anywhere else this can be coming from...
[Edited on 16/4/2021 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 16/4/21 at 06:51 PM |
|
|
Exactly
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 16/4/21 at 08:18 PM |
|
|
Exactly what I said in my first post but maybe not so well described
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 17/4/21 at 07:12 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
This is why fitting an oil pressure warning light is better than a gauge. It prevents over analysing everything. The light goes out, it runs, f£ck
it...just drive the car.
Absolutely. Lots of people like extra gauges, but they are called "worry gauges" for a reason. Fuel gauge, essential. And I do like a temp
gauge. On my current runabout (Honda Jazz, which reminds me that I need to buy some beige clothing) it has a natty temp indicator that just changes
colour, very simple and ideal for a tintop. But my old cars, temp gauge is handy....
I have had oil pressure, oil temp, even years ago a vacuum gauge. But all gone, as they become a distraction. The only thing left in my car is the AFR
gauge, and at some point I would like to replace that with something less distracting.
I have considered a 20psi oil pressure warning light. te normal ones are about 7psi I think, by which time it is all over. 20 would give a better
chance of avoiding total carnage.
|
|
|
jps
|
| posted on 17/4/21 at 07:23 AM |
|
|
Have you changed the oil pressure sender (not the gauge)? It’s not explicitly stated in your OP although in a later reply on the thread where someone
has mentioned gauge and sender you said it’s been done.
As others have posted, it seems there are limited potential culprits for the high reading (and they’ve all been listed) and, inevitably, it must be
one of them that’s causing it.
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 18/4/21 at 06:28 AM |
|
|
I’ve read all the posts and don’t want to go over all that’s been said before but just add my thinking.
Oil pressure is created by resistance to flow but there are many places oil squeezes out of bearings and oil feeds but mostly the main bearings crest
the main resistance to oil flow hence why it is an indicator of bearing health.
If it’s a 1 wire sensor it will earth through the block make sure there is a few clean threads to connect the electrical path to the block. PTFE tape
is sometimes used and can insulate the gauge signal. A good earth is needed under the dash where all gauges should be earthed at one point.
A good engine block earth is needed as sensor measure resistance, a broken gauge wire throws the gauge to max end of the scale so maybe it’s a
resistance issue.
I would consider running a temporary earth to the battery from the sender and all new wires to the gauge from the sender, maybe pop the gauge out of
the dash and wire it direct to sender and battery.
Oil pressure senders have a perforated plug that lets oil through to the pressure sensor if this is full of crud MAYBE it’s not letting oil pressure
out just building pressure. Check sender unit perhaps swap with someone else to try in their engine.
I have no other ideas on this but please please let us know if you solve the problem.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 18/4/21 at 03:43 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by bumpy
Before being put into storage at the end of last Summer my car ran with normal oil pressures, generally about 50 psi when running hot.
For some unknown reason it now wants to run at 90 psi most of the time. Its like someone turned on a switch to just about double the pressure!!
I put in a new oil pump, two new filters, changed the oil from 20/50 to 10/30, tried two other oil gauges including a calibrated capillary gauge and
took the head off to ensure no blockages to all accessible oil galleries.
Looks like I now need the experts. Please help.
Snapper he has used a capillary gauge i presume he means one with a pipe
G
[Edited on 18/4/21 by jacko]
|
|
|
Toys2
|
| posted on 19/4/21 at 08:08 AM |
|
|
Is it possible to pressurise the oil if a piston ring is passing?
Although isn't the crankcase breather meant to deal with this? What if that was blocked?
[Edited on 19/4/21 by Toys2]
|
|
|
.jpg)
