NS Dev
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| posted on 17/2/08 at 08:46 PM |
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Any joy Chris?
I am really confused on this one!
I trust when you had the cam cover off both the cams were turning? I've never seen it on a 16v but on 8v vauxhall engines I have known two cams
that snapped, so the belt drive was still going but not operating the valves!
It won't be that but then I'm clutching at straws now. If you have sparks at the plugs and have CONFIRMED it, and you have fuel, then no
amount of checking wiring is going to help very much!
Just to clarify, did it definitely come down with the trouble before you fuelled up or could it have been after fuelling up? If there is ANY question
over the fuel, get a can of bradex easy start spray (halfords sell it iirc) then spray it into the air intake with the airflow meter removed out of
the way and see if it fires. This will be a sure fire test of whether the ignition is working. If it is, it will cough and have a go at running
briefly, if not then you have insufficent spark (and the easystart only needs a weak one)
If it does fire on the easystart, pull off the fuel pump intake and return pipes and run it all from a can of known good fuel.
Given valves that open and shut, sparks and fuel, the damn thing should fire, its only an engine!!
As I say, (and I had mentioned the dizzy bits way up the thread) by the time you have ruled out the obvious, which you have, then its usually
something really daft and unforeseen that you have missed, rather than something more complex.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 12:38 PM |
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Thanks Nat,
No - still no joy - have changed the rotor and dizzy and coil, still no joy. Have definitely got well timed spark and fuel....
It died pre new fuel...
I think I'll compression test it next, then change the Hall sensor in the dizzy, then change the air flow meter.... will disconnect the battery
for a while to clear the ECU first - other than that I'm completely baffled - and about ready to throw the whole thing away! Anyone want a non
running Rush??
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 01:09 PM |
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Hey chin up it will be something trivial.
If you can sort getting it to you then I have a - "complete and known good 1 year ago when I removed it from the engine" - injection
system, loom ecu the whole lot.
You are welcome to it FOC though I would appreciate it back if it turns out to be something else, and I'll have your faulty one back if not.
Bit of a drive to mallory park from your neck of the woods but I've driven further for less important stuff lol!!
I've u2u'd you my mobile no, give me a call.
Nat
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 09:34 PM |
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I'd like to bet that its the Crank position sencor.......
I'm not sure exactly what the fault would show up as.. other than maybe randomly timed injection and sparking events?
If the 2 don't co-inside then it aint gunna fire, when there was a fault on the plug on mine it just refused to start regardless!.
Does the rev-counter work? maybe that would instantly show if its working if its fed form the ECU.
I doubt its the Air Flow meter, as mine will start without one at all and there pretty expencive to replace!.
As said, easy start or flash dash or anything highly flamable in the inlet to prove if its a fueling problem.
The CTS coolant temperature sencor for the ECU is a bit of an achillies heel for the XE but I can't remember exactly what fault it gives, maybe
if its saying the engine is hot its leaning out the fuel?
Thats the 2 pin sencor on the thermostat housing, I think there about £10 from Andrew Pages.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 09:57 PM |
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I would also go for crank sensor except for the fact that there's a well timed spark, which would "seem" to rule that one out, as
the one thing that will prevent is the spark timing.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 10:01 PM |
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Does it when its the Dizzy style engine tho?
I know for a coil pack system it would mess it up completely... but on the dizzy type could it just be running far too advanced or retarded to start?
(As all the CPS does is give the advance value to the dizzy and not make it actually spark?) my thinking of how it works and baset on no facts
whatsoever!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 10:16 PM |
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no, the ecu completely controls the spark, the dizzy just mechanically distributes it.
The hall effect sensor in the dizzy is a cam phase sensor for the sequential injection
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 10:54 PM |
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Of cause, I've got far too much of the Ford EDIS and MS setup swimming about in my head!.
I think it needs to be narrowed down weather its fueling or Ignition really with the old flamable aerosol down the inlet first.
I've also had spark plugs that were fine sparking to the head or manifold but would break down under compression in the engine, so it might be
worth getting a new set of them if they've seen a few years service, and maybe a coil?.
(it could well be something that appears all ok when testing but when under the strenuous conditions under compression it breaks down)
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/2/08 at 11:02 PM |
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Yep, I was wondering the same about the plugs. He's changed the coil and that didn't cure it, but have to say I am running out of
ideas!!!
deffo try the easy start test, should fire then however bad the mixture is
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 10:49 AM |
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Thanks for the ideas guys - have left it for a few days to stop getting really annoyed! Will have another go on Thursday night (busy until then).
I'll try the easy start first, but I also wondered about the coolant temperature sensor.. if they are that cheap then I'll just change
it!
Nat - I'll give you a call before I have another go...
Thanks
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 01:24 PM |
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Yep give me a call.
Re the temp sensor, just unplug it if there's any doubt, it will start without it.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 01:49 PM |
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Totally different engine i know but ive had similar fault on the pinto before.
After several events where it started spluttering and died on me - eventually for good and wouldnt start - i traced fault to an ignition amplifier.
All vital signs were good, even had spark but car wouldnt fire up. Managed to get it running with one of those ignition boxes (breakdown tool - just
fires loads of sparks to get you home). Fitted genuine OE 2nd hand amp and all was well.
Ive also had an issue on a project golf ages ago. Would run but would cut out without much warning. Eventually wouldnt run at all. This was raced to
be the way an immobilser was pro fitted. They cut the main feed to the fuel pump rather than the relay side. Eventually the immobiliser couldnt handle
the load and the contact was lost = no fuel pump. Wired the pump back in and all was well (and you probs guessed that it cost me quite a bit to fix
including new bosch fuel pump)
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 06:48 PM |
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mmm both worth a punt, s/h ecu swap would rule out the first one and the second, presumably no immobiliser fitted but a dodgy fuse could give a poor
connection once hot
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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SALAD
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| posted on 19/2/08 at 10:00 PM |
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Chris,
did you swap out the whole of the distributor from the cylinder head?
I know you mentioned earlier that you had tried a different one but I was unsure if you had replaced the whole thing. If not we could try 'a
good un' (a good one).
I also have the ECU from the Chavalier I broke.......if someone can confirm that my ECU, from an engine with a coil pack, will be compatible with
yours.
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 20/2/08 at 09:38 AM |
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Hi,
Just swapped out the plastic dizzy cap, not the whole thing with the Hall sensor - I think that might be a next step...
Other thing is that it died when coming off the power, slowing down and pulling over, and now there is a lot of petrol about - I wondered if the
throttle position sensor had got stuck open and was then making the mix really rich, which was stopping ignition? Does that sound reasonable or
complete b^%&*^ks?
I have got an immobiliser, but as far as I can tell - its working fine (power to the three isolating circuits - starter switch relay, ECU power relay
and fuel pump relay)
If that ECU would work (no idea here!) that would be really helpful.
Chris
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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Stu16v
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| posted on 20/2/08 at 09:28 PM |
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Sadly the ECU is not compatible...
If there really is that much fuel about, it might be worth trying another set of spark plugs now. You *might* of fixed the fault, but if the spark
plugs are wet, you will never know 
Dont just build it.....make it!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/2/08 at 09:47 PM |
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BUt as I said, if you are desperate, i have an ecu up here that is compatible.
As Stu said, get some plugs just in case!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 20/2/08 at 10:59 PM |
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Thanks again guys - really need to get it running, but am also stupidly busy at the moment! Tomorrow night I'll have another go with easy start
and the other ideas....
Chris
PS Am seriously thinking bike carbs though, even if / when do get it running!
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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