MikeRJ
|
| posted on 21/1/03 at 09:12 PM |
|
|
Surprised no one has mentioned some of the big jap turbo'd engines, like the Supra which can be picked up for pennies almost. Reason being that
people are scared of the costs when they blow a head gasket, which they all seem to eventualy. 300BHP in standard form with plenty more available by
tuning.
|
|
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 21/1/03 at 10:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Surprised no one has mentioned some of the big jap turbo'd engines, like the Supra which can be picked up for pennies almost. Reason being that
people are scared of the costs when they blow a head gasket, which they all seem to eventualy. 300BHP in standard form with plenty more available by
tuning.
yes i agree, but then you have been 'confused' by the question.
He wants to know what would be the best engine to get back to a newish state at a sensible price, with a good bhp per refurb cost.
Pay attention at the back - like im not !
atb
steve
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 21/1/03 at 10:34 PM |
|
|
John.
I can understand that you might like to take an engine apart before you put it in a kit car, and if you had the tiome to do it, and the price of, not
always cheap, gasket sets, then go for it.
However, my car isnt a daily driver. it will be a 3k or so a year fun car.
It could be compared to a ten year old banger, like a wife or son might use to go to the shops or whatever. I wouldnt buy a 10 year old vauxhall and
take the engine to bits to check all was OK. Id just drive it and wait for it to show me a problem.
Just like im gonna do with my self build car.
atb
steve
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 21/1/03 at 10:39 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Sorry steve but I did name 2 companies & niether of them are near or have anything to do with HEATHROW. They both deal Nationwide with companies of
repute and their technical back up is (IMO) superb. Also AFAIAA They back up their guarantees & their Engines come with ALL the gaskets Necessary to
fit.
Oh and usually next day delivery as well.
Enjoy.
Hi.
I should have been a bit clearer - I wasnt having a go at your suggested suppliers, just pointing out that companies offering short or full engines
are not always what they might seem. I did do a search on here last night to try and find some prices for interestedparty, but there does not seem to
be many uk engine remanufacturers on line.
atb
steve
|
|
|
interestedparty
|
| posted on 22/1/03 at 07:51 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
He wants to know what would be the best engine to get back to a newish state at a sensible price, with a good bhp per refurb cost.
Not quite, you are getting closer, but not quite there yet. Let me refer you back to the original post-
"Which engine has the most bhp per £?
I've been wondering about this lately. The price would have to be for a nearly new engine or else a rebuilt one, and include all the necessary stuff
for it to run it in a Locost situation
I used to think the Rover V8 was a good bet, but the rebuild prices are quite high, plus you need two exhaust manifolds etc
The 2ltr Zetec seems more promising, I haven't checked out rebuild prices, maybe £1000? but I know a pair of webers and the required ignition module
add about £900 to the price, and then you should get 165bhp for £1900 so a pound/power ratio of £11.50
Anyone else got any ideas? "
I'm looking at the overall package cost. Some Locost builders will be happy to use (case A) a donor engine as is, without the slightest refurbishment
whatsoever, others (case B)might prefer to spend their time and money building a car around an engine which is either nearly new (still within
manufactured spec) or rebuilt (brought back to manufactured spec).
In Case B as well as the acquisition cost there is the cost of the equipment needed to convert the engine to Locost use, I gave the example of the
Zetec with the webers and ignition module. A new sump and various others smaller parts will be needed. All add to the cost, but the extra power may
well make the exercise worthwhile.
The question was designed to get more information about prices and power outputs such as the Vauxhall 16v conversion costs etc, other possibilities,
motor cycle engines,
It's a shame the thread got hijacked but then most do, never mind
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 22/1/03 at 08:15 AM |
|
|
Steve.
No offence meant M8, just trying to stop any confusion between posts.
John.
Sorry M8, but its all part of the fun & why they are called threads, they go in and out, backwards & forwards, sometimes they work,
sometimes..........
If everything always worked perfectly then there would be no point to anything.
Enjoy.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 22/1/03 at 10:26 PM |
|
|
"We are sorry for the inconvenience" was the answer from the greater being in hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, when 42 wasnt a clear answer to the
meaning of life.
It took 4 book to get there tho! 
Problem was, the answer 42 came out cos the question wasnt put to the computer in the right way "what is the meaning of life, the universe, and
everything' got 42 as an answer after the computer spent millions of years on it.
my final answer is in the above.
atb
steve
|
|
|
Liam
|
 posted on 23/1/03 at 03:52 AM |
|
|
quote:
I'm looking at the overall package cost. Some Locost builders will be happy to use (case A) a donor engine as is, without the slightest
refurbishment whatsoever, others (case B)might prefer to spend their time and money building a car around an engine which is either nearly new (still
within manufactured spec) or rebuilt (brought back to manufactured spec).
John,
I was thinking, maybe the reason you haven't got any useful answers is not cos we can't understand your question (although Steve just probably
couldn't :b), but cos you're about the only person in 'case B' (well slight exaggeration maybe but it's gotta be a small minority), so we
haven't got anything to tell you about 'as-new' engines?
Seriously, most of us have a donor car that 'runs great for it's age', in which case we can be pretty sure that our engines have thousands of happy
miles left in them. So why on earth would we want to take them to bits and spend hundreds and hundreds rebuilding them when a few thousand miles a
year is all we want out of them?
If I'm anything to go by, while a lot of us have car tinkering skills beyond the average man in the street (we know what a clutch looks like), the
thought of taking the scariest part to pieces (the meerest attempt at which will automatically require money to put right) is a little daunting - not
to mention pointless if we know it works fine. It's far more comfortable for me (us) to see the engine as kind of a 'black box' that has to go in
with the rest of them, and I think it's perfectly valid and sensible to do so if you know it works.
I honestly can't see the point in spending thousands aquiring an 'as-new' engine to put it in a car that is gonna do a few thousand miles a year,
especially when at the end of the day it's just a shopping trolley 4-pot that you now have to get through CAT tests? Now spending money (if you have
it) on something like a RV8 or a Cossie for performance I can understand, but I'd never spend the same amount on, say, a bog standard 1800 Zetec just
to make sure it was 'still within manafacturers specifications' unless I thought I had too much money. To me that couldn't be further away from
the Locost ethos.
And what are you gonna do with your nice still-within-it's-manafacturers-specifications engine? Bolt it to a knackered old Type-9 and run it through
a billion-year-old English axle. Or are you gonna rebuild all that too? I think I'll stick with my V6 which comes with 180bhp as standard for about
thrupence and will probably be more reliable than a new Zetec stressed to the same power.
Anyway, hope I dont sound confrontational or anything - just dont understand the 'nearly new' thing if you're on any kind of budget. Didn't that
annoying vet put a new Zetec in his all expenses paid W*$@field - maybe that's coloured my judgement a little - sorry.
Liam
|
|
|
philgregson
|
| posted on 23/1/03 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
Liam-
Yes thats what I meant.
Well put.
Phil.
|
|
|
interestedparty
|
| posted on 23/1/03 at 03:31 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
To me that couldn't be further away from the Locost ethos.
Liam, I see what you mean about not wanting to touch the internals of an engine. I would be the same about gearboxes, my inclination would be to fit a
gearbox and, if it failed, to replace it.
I personally don't feel the same way about engines, partly because I think it's fairly straightforward to dismantle one and partly because, rather
than just transmit power, they actually generate it, and I feel the condition of an engine is more important to a car than the condotion of a gearbox
or axle.
I accept that many others don't feel that way, and that's perfectly OK.
About the 'Locost ethos', to some it's all about building a car on a very tight budget, to me and to some others it's all about building your own
car from scratch. I mean, if price was the only thing that mattered then surely we would all be driving £100 bangers, wouldn't we? Or, if it had to
be a sportscar, you can buy a roadworthy TR7 for £1000, cheaper than any locost is ever going to be (apart from Ron's)
All in the best possible taste
John
ps, Steve, Don't Panic!
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
|
|
|
johnston
|
| posted on 23/1/03 at 10:44 PM |
|
|
quote:
engine is more important to a car than the condotion of a gearbox or axle.
dont forget that if your g box or diff is knackered you could have 6000bhp butb u aint gonna be goin anywhere
and have you ever tried driving a car with knackered gearbox or diff bearings
at least if u get your revs right that bad big end can sound like the beat from your stero
remember a chain is only as strong as its weekest link
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 23/1/03 at 11:19 PM |
|
|
Best sound in the world -------- You give it plenty of right foot as you select 1st and drop the clutch from a standing start on a hot day with sticky
tarmac. BANG is the sound as you stip ALL the teeth on the input shaft of your gearbox, except for 1 tooth which allows you to drive 10 miles home,
until you try & reverse it into the garage, the you can't go nowhere.
Enjoy.
|
|
|
Liam
|
| posted on 25/1/03 at 01:11 AM |
|
|
Heh hee - speaking from experience? I wish I had experience like that - sounds like awesome fun.
I just get sodding knackered clutch release bearings 10 miles after I've only just taken the thing apart to put a new clutch plate in, and siezed
front callipers obliterating brand new brake pads Some advice - never buy a french car. The stupid onion-guzzling ungrateful gits that they
are.
|
|
|
Numpty
|
| posted on 24/2/03 at 04:38 PM |
|
|
I've been toying with a V12 locost for a while as I have a Jag with good mechanics but poor body. Engine with box is about 650lb so I am looking at
mods to the chassis design to take it. Any suggestions or should I just forget it
|
|
|
kingr
|
| posted on 24/2/03 at 05:00 PM |
|
|
numpty by name, numpty by nature
Kingr
|
|
|
eddymcclements
|
| posted on 25/2/03 at 11:14 AM |
|
|
2.0 Pinto. Very cheap to buy, gearbox also cheap and no problem with adaptors etc., cheap to re-build if required, fairly easy to get 160bhp,
bottom-end is as tough as a very tough thing.
OK, so it's heavy, but cheap and reasonably powerful which is what the man wants.
Personally I'm using a 4AGE - I bought one perfect one from a runner with all injection, electrics, ECU etc for 100 quid, and one for spares for 60
quid. Not the most powerful engine by a long way, but it's small and not too heavy, and 120-odd BHP in a light car will feel fairly nippy. I also
think the 7k plus redline will suit the Locost's sporty nature.
Eddy
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 25/2/03 at 07:24 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Numpty
I've been toying with a V12 locost for a while as I have a Jag with good mechanics but poor body. Engine with box is about 650lb so I am looking at
mods to the chassis design to take it. Any suggestions or should I just forget it
think i posted a pic of my v12 earlier from my xjs
i recon its lunacy
a locost is a fast and nimble car
if anything needs a bike engine
putting a 550lb v12 in the fron - if its possible cos thats a mother of an engine.......would be completly against the concept.
bit like putting the vicar of dibley in a long jump competition
atb
steve
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 25/2/03 at 07:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by eddymcclements
2.0 Pinto. Very cheap to buy, gearbox also cheap and no problem with adaptors etc., cheap to re-build if required, fairly easy to get 160bhp,
bottom-end is as tough as a very tough thing.
OK, so it's heavy, but cheap and reasonably powerful which is what the man wants.
Personally I'm using a 4AGE - I bought one perfect one from a runner with all injection, electrics, ECU etc for 100 quid, and one for spares for 60
quid. Not the most powerful engine by a long way, but it's small and not too heavy, and 120-odd BHP in a light car will feel fairly nippy. I also
think the 7k plus redline will suit the Locost's sporty nature.
Eddy
you are like me eddy......
you didnt understand the question....
give yerself a spanking and count the cost of a total rebuild of a much more exspensive engine ....read interestedparty's criteria....
atb
steve
welcome by the way
[Edited on 25/2/03 by stephen_gusterson]
|
|
|
eddymcclements
|
| posted on 26/2/03 at 11:06 AM |
|
|
Yeah, well - the original posting was asking about a new or re-built engine, and I think a totally reconditioned Pinto still gives a lot of bank for
the buck.
A low-mileage, written-off Mondeo with a 1.8 or 2.0 Zetec would also be an idea, but post-'95 engines come with their own issues regarding emissions,
catalytic convertors etc. You'd also have to factor-in the mods required to convert to RWD (different clutch, adding a spigot bearing, different
waterpump etc).
Maybe a written-off Nissan 200ZX? Or a 3SGE from a Mk2 MR2 mated to a Supra gearbox?
Eddy
|
|
|
Liam
|
| posted on 28/2/03 at 12:54 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i recon its lunacy
a locost is a fast and nimble car
if anything needs a bike engine
putting a 550lb v12 in the fron - if its possible cos thats a mother of an engine.......would be completly against the concept.
bit like putting the vicar of dibley in a long jump competition
atb
steve
Being against the original concept doesn't make it lunacy. It'll still be a damned light car - like an average locost with a couple of gents
sitting on the bonnet! Will need a chassis a fair bit bigger and stronger than standard though. Think of it more as a US style roadster.
And who says a locost has to be light and nimble (not that a V12 locost wouldn't be compared to your average hot hatch)? You're a fine one to talk
about that, eh stevo!! Go have a look in your garage.
But then i thought the Patton tank-engined roadster that got linked to on TOL was cool.
Liam
[Edited on 28/2/03 by Liam]
|
|
|
thetankwad
|
| posted on 28/2/03 at 09:26 AM |
|
|
Whats wrong with you people? A rover V8 weighs slightly more than a Pinto, gives 160bhp with no mods, and sounds like a porno soundtrack! An SDI donor
leaves a 5 speed gearbox, groovy interior, and more scrap metal than you can imagine. Provided it isnt rusted. Think people, think.
Actually, i should just shut up and whimper in the corner again...
|
|
|
Browser
|
| posted on 28/2/03 at 09:11 PM |
|
|
I have been told thought that the LT77 gearbox used in the SD1 is a bit Massey Ferguson-esque in it's shift quality, not to mention being a tad
heavy.
I bought a Citroen BX 16 valve for 150 quid, sscrapped it myself and made about 80 quid on the deal. I haven't sodl the gearbox yet either as I'm
keeping it to get the crank angle sensor position. Apparrently the LDV Pilot van uses a 1.9 XU diesel engine (the BX has the alloy XU petrol lump) so
for about 40 quid I have a bellhousing which I could bolt to an LT77 but I have obtained a reconned Ford T9 for 50 quid from a mate so this
will get slotted in. So, I have a 160-165 ish bhp motor which will rev to 7500rpm plus its wiring loom and ECU for, well nothing or even plus 80 quid,
deduct the transmission cost and I'm still 30 quid up, deduct the cost of a bellhousing and it will have cost 10 quid. The XU is all alloy, 16 valve
and a modern design. What more could you want?
p.s. I picked up a secong engine/box combo from a local scrappy for 75 quid which I will rebuild, (hopefully) tweak somewhat and install once I have
the car built and running with the first engine in it.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 28/2/03 at 11:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i recon its lunacy
a locost is a fast and nimble car
if anything needs a bike engine
putting a 550lb v12 in the fron - if its possible cos thats a mother of an engine.......would be completly against the concept.
bit like putting the vicar of dibley in a long jump competition
atb
steve
Being against the original concept doesn't make it lunacy. It'll still be a damned light car - like an average locost with a couple of gents
sitting on the bonnet! Will need a chassis a fair bit bigger and stronger than standard though. Think of it more as a US style roadster.
And who says a locost has to be light and nimble (not that a V12 locost wouldn't be compared to your average hot hatch)? You're a fine one to talk
about that, eh stevo!! Go have a look in your garage.
But then i thought the Patton tank-engined roadster that got linked to on TOL was cool.
Liam
[Edited on 28/2/03 by Liam]
there isnt nowt wrong about being different. I have a big iron v6, you have a bit alu honda.
I had a v12 for a couple years. Everytime I showed under the bonnet you got the same 'bloody hell' comments.
The engine is big. Like BIG. Its also got a really BIG radiator - and the XJS wasnt wonderfully cooled. Just mounting a rad big enougth to get the
heat out of a 299hp 5.3 litre v12 will be a bit of a problem.
The v12 is a sweet fantastic engine. But its massive. Take a look at one and just try and imagine it in a locost!
My big v6 is in a car thats much bigger than a std locost. even tho its only inches, it still makes me suprised how much bigger it is than say a
cateringvan.
Just my opinion. but if you try and put a v12 in a locost you need to be into masochism I recon. My v6 is actually shorter than a pinto. The jag is
possibly twice as long......
atb
steve
|
|
|
indigoglyph
|
| posted on 30/9/04 at 05:00 PM |
|
|
quote:
My VX 16v was actually free once I had broke the rest of the car up and sold the bits and pieces. But it has still cost quite a bit of money
to install ... I do wish I had now put a bike engine in my Locost.
Had to say thanks for this clear, honest post - this is exactly what I worry about while I search eBay for crossflows etc. etc. Now, just when I
thought I'd decided, I'm looking at bike engines again!
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 30/9/04 at 05:35 PM |
|
|
wow
a thread from the dead!
atb
steve
|
|
|
