clairetoo
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 12:14 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Claire. I think we need a recap and start again.
Have you had the engine running on all 6 cylinders using parts for your car?
No - apart from a few seconds when it may have , but it stops dead from several thousand RPM with no chance of catching it .
Have you had your car running using ecu, coils, leads, plugs etc off Matts car?
My car runs fine with any and all components from Matt's car .
On Matts car can you get both banks running individually by swopping the leads around?
No - and since its batch fired injection , and wasted spark , and tested working on both sides , dunno how swapping side to side would help (plus the
loom comes in from one side of the engine bay and the coil is to one side , so none of the wires would reach .
You now have a strong spark on all 6?
Yes - but apparently only when the plugs are outside the engine........... Put a tested working plug in the engine , turn it over , pull it out wet
and non sparking ten seconds later....
All 6 injectors are firing? Do they fire at the correct time?
All six fire - fuel rail removed from `bodies , engine turned over , fuel pulses from injectors as expected . Since theres now way of altering when
they fire (plus as long as they fire , then they are fine) I have to assume something I cant change has to be right......
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 01:10 PM |
|
|
Run a separate earth from bad bank head to block
Yes I am also clutching at straws
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 01:13 PM |
|
|
The more I read the more I think this is either...
1, A blocked exhaust (but that'd still fire even if just backwards/up the throttles).
2, Cam timing out due to a broken cam or sprocket moved due to a sheared key (but that'd probably fail the leak down).
3, Cam timing out 180' on that bank.
Have you done a compression check yet? It's not the same as a leak down. Have you checked the cam timing at the cams, not just the sprockets,
with the rockers covers off?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
theconrodkid
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 06:40 PM |
|
|
Yes - but apparently only when the plugs are outside the engine........... Put a tested working plug in the engine , turn it over , pull it out wet
and non sparking ten seconds later....
so either a weak spark or too much fuel ?
try cranking with fuel pimp not running whilst someone squirts easystart or similar down the trumpets on the bad side ?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 06:46 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
so either a weak spark or too much fuel ?
...or spark isn't on compression stroke.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
avagolen
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 07:29 PM |
|
|
Hi Clare, you must be so frustrated with this.
Just re-read something Mark Chandler said earlier on.
He said the MS provides a ground for the injectors, which means they are fed with
what I assume is a common +12v.
The question is - if this is the case - is it a good +12v feed to the non running side.
If not, the injectors will not be allowing a good shot of vaporised, fuel just enough to wet the plugs.
Volt meter readings may show a good voltage when not running, but a poor joint will have high resistance
which in turn will give low current flow when required.
All the best.
Len
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
|
|
|
Pat_T
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 09:02 PM |
|
|
Claire,
I design & develop OEM motorcycle engines (including ECU tune development) and you have tried most the the things I would!!
One idea though:
Fault/voltage drop between the crank position sensor and the ECU?
We have issues where engines wouldn't start due to the actual ignition timing being some way removed from what the ECU thought it was doing.
Cam timing could be right, spark plugs could be firing, injectors could be pulsing, but if the sparks are not occurring at the correct ignition value
you won't get anything.
The crank position sensor will work by being a certain gap from the pick-up (probably on the flywheel in this case?). Try moving it closer if you can
- aim for a 0.5-0.8mm gap.
This will increase the voltage of the signal that the ECU sees during cranking.
also:
Can you confirm the static compression ratio is correct on that bank?
Edit - also try reversing the polarity of the VR/crank position sensor...
[Edited on 23/11/13 by Pat_T]
www.instagram.com/patroclueus
|
|
|
BaileyPerformance
|
| posted on 23/11/13 at 11:21 PM |
|
|
are all 6 throttles opening at the same time?
are the plugs wet on the bank that does not appear to be firing? spit on the exhaust headers - are thay hot?
Do the exhaust headers get hot at all when you run the engine at 1/4 throttle? (does it pick up on the missing cylinders when you rev it? - open the
throttle and rev the engine at over 2K for 20secs then check header temps again)
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 09:41 AM |
|
|
I did ask much earlier in this thread if crank sensor air gap could cause a problem - got no comments on that , so carried on checking and re-checking
everything else........... I've just machined the mount down by another 10 thou , just gonna go and re-fit it...............
All the throttle open pretty much at the same time - well , as close as they can be set on a non-running engine.......
The `dead' bank is just that - three non-firing cylinders , that flood the plugs instantly (even went and bought yet another set of plugs
yesterday)
Odd thing (to me) is that the spark at the plugs is very weak , but if you lift the plug away from the block , the spark will jump an inch , through
the painted cam covers , it will even spark onto plastic trim........but earth the plug , and the spark is barely visible 
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 10:16 AM |
|
|
Another thing I've encountered is faulty multi-connectors where the pins have pushed out through the block. Are there any that are common with
the faulty engine?
I suggested a puff of Easystart earlier in the thread. Did you try this? This would help to diagnose if you were looking at a fuel or spark fault.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 10:30 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Odd thing (to me) is that the spark at the plugs is very weak , but if you lift the plug away from the block , the spark will jump an inch , through
the painted cam covers , it will even spark onto plastic trim........but earth the plug , and the spark is barely visible
Might be worth trying a larger plug gap .
As already suggested try squirting directly down the affected throttle bodies although I would use brake cleaner rather than easistart. Also have you
checked the valve clearances, too tight can cause all sorts of problems,better to be slightly loose even if noisy
|
|
|
richardm6994
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 10:31 AM |
|
|
Claire....sounds really frustrating.
The only thing can add is regards the vr sensor. I've currently got a problem on my megajolt setup where I randomly loose spark for a split
second. I've not got to the bottom of this yet (it feels like I've tried everything) but during my investigations I messed about with vr
sensor gap....
Mine is set at 20 thou and signals fine.....surprisingly though, it still works fine when I pulled it right back (bracket on slots) to 3/16"
away from the trigger wheel.
|
|
|
rdodger
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 10:39 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Well - the starter motor is the right one for the V6 , and since it will start (on three cylinders...) I'm pretty sure its spinning the right
way 
The only thing I can think of , would too large an air-gap on the VR sensor be a problem ? Its about 35thou at the moment , and not too much of a
mission to reduce it........
If it's easy enough to move then I would try it. By the sound of it you have tried everything else.
Has it worked?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 10:39 AM |
|
|
So its not the VR sensor air-gap
It will tickover on three - as if the other side is not connected ? I tried putting a hand over the inlets - on the good side , it sucks your hand in
and nearly stops........on the dead side ........nothing .
If anything , I can feel it pushing my hand away ? Maybe the cam timing is a problem , but externally looks good - the cam sprockets are bang on the
marks .
Soon as I warm up (its piggin freezin here ) its off with covers , and dig out the workshop manual 
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 11:00 AM |
|
|
Blocked exhaust will also give this symptom as the air has nowhere to go, if the manifold is easy to get at try knocking this off first and turning
over, you never know when it was in storage it may have had some rags stuffed up the ports to keep everything clean.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 11:43 AM |
|
|
I'd go with turning it over on the starter with the cam covers off. One of the friction gears could be slipping/have slipped but the sprockets
would still align.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 11:50 AM |
|
|
Cam timing is spot on........I even turned the engine over slowly and watched the cams/valves doing their thing in the right order at the right time
.
Everything that can be checked , has been - there cant be anything blocking the exhaust , its all new and built by me , and I know nothing was ever
stuffed into it or any of the ports......it came off the welding bench and straight onto the car .
I'm gonna put it all back together , and try opening up the plug gaps - then maybe swap the injectors from side to side (but I doubt I've
got three duff injectors all on the same side....)
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 01:32 PM |
|
|
if you can feel it not sucking why are you thinking injectors?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 01:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
if you can feel it not sucking why are you thinking injectors?
Clutching at straws......................
I've pretty much had enough now - there is nothing more I can check or swap , and it still wont run .
The only part that hasnt been swapped is the engine........
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 01:44 PM |
|
|
why not look at the exhaust side more. I'm far less knowledgeable than you but you seem to be missing the 'blow' bit.
another random idea, can you disable the side that works and try again. if its a volts / resistance thing that's too much with 6 cyls it could
add another level of confusion if it works.
random musings of an ill person.
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 05:32 PM |
|
|
It should still suck your hand in even if not running, as you are satisfied that nothing was stuffed up the exhaust ports of the engine the only other
reason I can think of is so much fuel has now washed the bores down that it has lost compression when cranking, a squirt if oil required in each bore
required.
Although you have changed components you have not replaced the loom, if you have a short to earth in the cable header, the injector pins are opposite
an earth then the injectors will stay fully open and flood the bank. It looks alright with a key of the ignition as you see fuel squirting. Mine now
has a slither of plastic to separate the rows of pins.... Been there done that, got the badge.
You must be  by by now with it
[Edited on 24/11/13 by mark chandler]
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 06:23 PM |
|
|
Yep - I'm starting to lose it
It cant be short on the plug - I've made a new injector loom , and tried it connected both ways.......if there was a fault , surely it would
have swapped sides ?
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 06:27 PM |
|
|
Have you checked valve clearances
|
|
|
simon cofield
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 06:30 PM |
|
|
Had exactly the same fault with V6 Isuzu engine....was a blocked cat on the none running bank...if you are running cats just remove exhaust manifold
on the none running bank and try....won't cost anything to check!
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/11/13 at 06:31 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Have you checked valve clearances
non-adjustable hydraulic tappits........plus a leak-down test showed no leaking valves
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
.jpg)
