David Jenkins
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 06:55 PM |
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Dizzy not working!
As part of my campaign to get my 1600 Xflow running properly, I've changed the standard distributor to a Bosch electronic one from a Mk4
Valencia-engined Escort. Unfortunately, I'm not getting a spark! 
Now, I want to persevere with this as it will be better once it's working. So does anyone have any diagnostic methods I can apply to one of
these? This is what I've done so far:
1. Rough-set the timing so it should be near-enough correct - I'll give it a final setting once the engine's running.
2. Put a timing light on the No.1 lead while cranking - no flash, so no spark.
3. The tacho isn't moving while cranking, so I don't think I'm getting the make-break from the dizzy.
Here's how I've wired it (according to the Peter Wallage book)
green = +ve side of coil (ign side)
black = -ve side of coil
brown = chassis
As far as I can tell, the dizzy itself only contains an inductive sensor system - this triggers the gubbins in the amplifier module to break the
connection to earth, which in turn persuades the coil to make a spark (BTW - I do understand how it works - I'm only generalising!).
If nobody says anything then my next step is to get another amplifier module - if I can avoid that expense then I'll be happy!
Any tests I can do before I go spending money?
regards,
David
[Edited on 8/5/04 by David Jenkins]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 07:12 PM |
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i think its green is neg and black is live
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 07:17 PM |
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David, think you have green and black wires reversed, green should go to coil neg(-) terminal . May have possibly damaged module, If you still have no
spark try second hand module as they are pretty expensive. Hope this helps Rusty
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Hellfire
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 07:21 PM |
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I like that signature - what does it mean 
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 08:23 PM |
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Rats! Does that mean that the Wallage book was wrong? If so, if swapping the wires doesn't work I may have a visit to the scrappy coming up....
At least I've set the wiring up so that I can swap distributors easily - this should be fairly easy to fix...
Hellfire - looks like you come into the second category!
David
[Edited on 8/5/04 by David Jenkins]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 08:34 PM |
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David , check that you have got the correct coil to use with the electronic distributor one from fiesta with valencia engine or c.v.h should be o.k.
Rusty
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paulf
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 09:14 PM |
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These modules do seem easily damaged, I blew one by testing the distributor whilst holding it in my hand with out earthing the dizzy to the engine .
Instead it somehow earthed the HT through me as i was sitting on the chassis and blew the module, an experience i wont be repeating.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Rats! Does that mean that the Wallage book was wrong? If so, if swapping the wires doesn't work I may have a visit to the scrappy coming up....
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/5/04 at 11:01 PM |
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If swapping wires doesn't work
Check the coil first, it's the easy option, I had one fail on me, with the pinto engine though.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Steve Hnz
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 07:39 AM |
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Hellfire, I seem to remember from many years ago that 10 is the binary way to represent 2. Stand to be corrected & couldn`t possibly muster an
explanation of same if I was right. If I`m right then I too think its a clever signature. if not then what the heck?!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 09:04 AM |
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I do have the right coil (12v) and it does work - I have had the car running on a conventional dizzy, albeit roughly.
I will try swapping the wires over later this morning - I'll let you know!
David
(and yes, 10 does equal 2 in binary - it's a silly sig, but there you go!)
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SeaBass
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 09:05 AM |
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Here's how I wired mine works perfectly:
green = to the -ve side of coil and tacho. This is what the module switches.
black = +ve ignition switched supply (also at +ve side of coil if you see what I mean!)
brown = chassis earth
Cheers
JC
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 09:52 AM |
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Thanks everyone - I think the swap worked!
Trouble is, instead of cranking over with no spark (as before) it won't even spin past the first compression - I think my timing is way too
advanced (or completely wrong). But at least I'm getting 'attempting to fire' noises!
Can anyone give me a quick summary on how to insert the dizzy in the right position, and what should point to where when the timing mark is in the
right place? (8 - 10 degrees BTDC). I'm not sure I trust the Wallage book anymore...
cheers,
David
[Edited on 9/5/04 by David Jenkins]
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Peteff
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 01:47 PM |
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Set the timing marks at no 1 tdc, mark where the no1 segment is on the dizzy case and slot the dizzy back in with the rotor on and no cap. Look how
far it turns as you slot it in then take it out and turn the rotor back till it looks like it will turn as far as the no1 when you push it back in.
Set it properly with the light when you get it running. The marks will probably be at 4* intervals on your front pulley.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 01:55 PM |
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on the bosch dizzy there is a mark in the middle of the rotor arm and one on the dizzy boddy,they should line up when engine is at tdc,firing on no
1(remove no 1 plug an turn till you get compression) you will have to brop the dizzy a few times till you get it to line up properly,remember firing
order is 1243
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 03:02 PM |
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The coil is not just 12volt it should be a special one the module --- an A series metro coil is suitable as is mone from a Maestro or Montego or
Sherpa withn the Lucas AB17 ignition
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 04:09 PM |
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Three cheers for the Team!!!
Took the dizzy cover off and checked the settings - found that I had left the pinch nut loose ready for setting the timing... but too loose, and it
had shifted round.
Set it back where it should have been, put everything back together and cranked it over. Fired immediately on the first try and was happy to rev
above idle!
My guess is that the capacitor was knackered on the old mechanical dizzy, causing the engine to misfire badly (and looking like a carb problem). As I
already had the Bosch dizzy I thought I'd fit that one, rather than go out and buy a capacitor (with the risk that it wasn't the problem
anyway).
All I have to do now is set the timing properly and tweak the carb - unfortunately it started raining so it will have to wait. 
Thanks to all,
David
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Peteff
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 05:07 PM |
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Use an electronic ignition coil or you might overheat it. The one from the Mk4 Escort should work with it. The points were probably knackered by the
lack of ballast resistor.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/5/04 at 07:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Use an electronic ignition coil or you might overheat it.
EDITED ANSWER: I've been guilty of talking out of my posterior again! I thought that I already had a suitable coil, but looking at the specs I
can see that it's only OK for contact-breaker based distributors, or electronically converted c-b dizzies (e.g. Lumenition).
Now I need to look for a new coil
I'll look at the suggestions posted above. Would the Mk4 Escort coil be ballasted? (my wiring loom hasn't been set up for a ballast
resistor). I know I can simply fit a suitable ballast wire or resistor, but I won't have the wiring to give the startup boost.
quote:
The points were probably knackered by the lack of ballast resistor.
The points were fine - no significant burning - but I'm fairly convinced now that the capacitor was knackered. The engine hadn't run long
enough to get the characteristic burning to indicate that the cap had gone. On reflection, the symptoms I had were classic for a non-working capacitor
(severe misfiring due to a weak/intermittent spark).
cheers,
David
[Edited on 9/5/04 by David Jenkins]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 10/5/04 at 07:55 AM |
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I've moved this topic to Electrics, where it belongs!
David
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britishtrident
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| posted on 11/5/04 at 06:56 AM |
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With pre electronic Fords a ballast isn't required with a 12 volt coil -- it is of course required with a lowr voltage coil designed for a
ballast, I can't rembar what voltage Fords are ballasted at as manufactures can use 6, 8, 9 or 10 volt coils.
When using points ignition on Fords they start an awful lot easier with a ballast coil and suitable ballast ressitor by-pass wire from the solenoid
(or via a seperate relay).
[Edited on 11/5/04 by britishtrident]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 11/5/04 at 11:10 AM |
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While browsing around looking for info on CVH coils, etc. I found this link...
Locust dizzy
...if I'd found this in the beginning I wouldn't have had so many problems.
cheers,
David
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