mccsp
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 08:45 PM |
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GT Power Simulation - Zetec Cam Profile and Head Measurements
Hi,
I am looking to go for aftermarket camshafts in the near future 
Considering the Newman Cams possible group buy:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=135862
For interest and education as much as anything, I am using a piece of software at work (GT Power - 1D Simulation Software) to model my engine
installation in order to compare the camshaft profiles (as well as inlet and exhaust header length tuning). I don't want to buy cams that are
silly aggresive, as although I am trying to achieve 200bhp, it is more and road car than a track car.
My engine is assembled and not wanting to strip it down I am hoping someone on here may be able to help.
I am looking for the 132PS or 136PS Zetec E Silvertop cam profiles as part of the baseline. If need be I can take the top cover of and measure for
myself, but hoping someone may already have the info.
If anyone has it, I am also looking to find out the exhaust port geometry for a 2.0 litre head as well as the combustion volume in the head.
I have done quite a lot of research on the Net and I am getting some conflicting info. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately I have a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. My engine has not been fully mapped yet and as such I don't have a power curve to
match to. I therefore need to base the model on the standard installation and the known production performance before adapting it to my specific inlet
and exhaust configuration. I can then use different cam profiles to compare their expected performance. Should be interesting, hopefully
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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jonesier1
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 08:57 PM |
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can't answer your question but i have a pair of newman fast road cams in my 2.0 silver top zetec and although not full set up yet it feels quite
rev'y and goes really well.
im in my own little world...its ok though they know me there
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mccsp
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:09 PM |
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The Newman Cam options are as follows:
 
Newman Cam Options
I am assuming you mean the 400H Ph2 camshaft.
Ph3 would be my absolute limit as don't want to start modify the head to take mechanical followers.
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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will121
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:16 PM |
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ive just fitted a set of zetec E Newman 270 cams, but i did still need to modify the head a bit around the followers to enable the new 270 cams added
lift to rotate which is only ment to be necessary on the 280's. mine is running with GSXR750 throttle bodies, DIY ported skimmed head 10.6/1 CR,
vernier pulleys and Emerald ECU. its booked into Emerald 1st June for mapping.
What cam measurements are you after, more than just standard lift? ive got a standard 2litre 136 head/cams ive just removed if you let me know
specifically what you are after i will try and measure for you.
Standard inlet
DIY inlet
[Edited on 11/5/10 by will121]
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Lars
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:17 PM |
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Sorry cant help
but sounds very interesting, let me know what you find, as I am in the same position.
currently drawn to the ph3 cams
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mccsp
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:28 PM |
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Will,
What other work have you had done to the engine. If you wouldn't mind, I would be very interested to get a copy of the power curve. Could be
used to further validate the model. Do you mind if I ask how much Dave Walker has quoted you and how long he expects it to take? I expect that I will
be using his facilities in the not too distant future. Do you have Vernier pullies and are you expecting him to optimise the timing of these too?
In terms of required data for cams, I need to replicate most of the data in the table above. The more accurate the measurement the better the profile
can be replicated.
My plan if I have to remove the top cover was to measure with reference to TDC on a given cylinder in as smaller increments as required to accurately
define the start and end of lift, max lift and overlap.
Lars,
I am too! Plotting up the profiles suggest the descriptions are not particularly exact. But the three phases are pretty similar to the Kent and Piper
offerings, but cheaper.
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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mccsp
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:31 PM |
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Will,
How much did you skim the head to achieve 10.6:1
Do you have a photo of the exhaust ports? Any reference dimensions that I could scale from?
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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will121
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| posted on 11/5/10 at 09:50 PM |
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had 0.6mm skimmed of head, yes getting Emerald to time vernier pulleys to think they charge about £300 for full mapping and about another £50 for
cams. i can measure standard ports tomorrow for you. can get some measurements of cams, as head is off can i measure duration etc? if so can you tell
me how, got timing disc, DTI, calipers etc
standard exhaust
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Red16
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
If anyone has it, I am also looking to find out the exhaust port geometry for a 2.0 litre head as well as the combustion volume in the
head.
I can find out the size of the exhaust ports today, as my mate currently has an engine stood in his garage, i'll drop him a text.
The combustion chamber volume of the Zetec head is 48cc.
These are the only photos i have to hand, they may or may not be of some help to you.
[Edited on 12/5/10 by Red16]
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mccsp
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 11:51 AM |
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Cheers,
Red 16 that helps. For the time being I can scale the sizes based on a known dimension on my cylinder head.
Will,
With regards to measuring the cams, if you don't have a spare cylinder head, it will probably be a bit difficult. I will prob take the rocker
cover off of mine at the weekend and have a measure up.
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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will121
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 01:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
Cheers,
Will,
With regards to measuring the cams, if you don't have a spare cylinder head, it will probably be a bit difficult. I will prob take the rocker
cover off of mine at the weekend and have a measure up.
ive got a standard spare head in the shelf i can refit the cams to. i brought a spare complete engine for the head so i could port it and then just
swap it over
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dlatch
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 04:49 PM |
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very interested in the power results from these cams as this is a upgrade i will be doing over the winter.
anyone done this all ready and have it fully setup? would be good to hear gains
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will121
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 07:09 PM |
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just done some standard measurements
exhaust 8.5mm lift
inlet 9.3mm lift
port sizes masured at manifold face
inlet
45.4mm wide
24.2mm tall
individual port to valve 24.2mm dia
Exhaust
39.7mm wide
28.6mm tall
22.6mm individual port to valve
hope it helps.
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mccsp
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| posted on 12/5/10 at 08:36 PM |
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Cheers Will,
When you say:
"individual port to valve 24.2mm dia"
You mean from the inlet/exhaust sealing face to the valve?
In terms of measuring the cam profile. The way I would go about it would be to fit the cams in the head (valves fitted or not, possibly easier not).
Fit the pullies. Set the dti up on the cam such that it is not going to move when the cam is rotated. Then rotate each cam in fixed increments (Iwould
use the pulley teeth as a guide) recording the lift on the dti. You can measure each cam individually, but need a reference between the two cams. I
would using the timing plate to phase the two cams to begin with then the starting/end point for each cam gives you the relative phasing.
I hope that makes sense.
Sounds like a bit of a b**lache, so I fully understand if you decide not to do it.
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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will121
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| posted on 13/5/10 at 07:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mccsp
Cheers Will,
When you say:
"individual port to valve 24.2mm dia"
You mean from the inlet/exhaust sealing face to the valve?
no, this is the diameter of the section of port where it goes from the single outlet to the individual port to each valve which is visable in the
photo,s. i could measure the port valve seat if required?
as for measuring cams if weather is horrible at weekend will give it a go.
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will121
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| posted on 13/5/10 at 09:13 PM |
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been busy measuring, is it what you are after? its taken on cylinder 1. Also have a set of newman 270 cams so could possibly do a comparison if
helpfull. if you U2U you email address will email excel file
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mccsp
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| posted on 14/5/10 at 11:48 AM |
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That is exactly what I am after. Thank you very much!
U2U on the way shortly!
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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mccsp
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| posted on 1/6/10 at 08:53 PM |
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I have struggled to do much lately due to the GT Power licences all being used for a project at work. Hopefully I will get somewhere this week.
Will,
How did you get on with your roling road session?
Why do it the easy way, when I can do things my way!
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norm007
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 10:31 PM |
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My 2.0 Silver top with Piper 285 cams, GSXR750 throttle bodies, home flowed head(more like a clean `n` polish), head skimmed to give 10.5-1 comp`, Arp
big end and fly wheel bolts, Omex 500 series ECU with limiter set @ 7200 revs gave a max 192 bhp & 146ftlbs torque 6900.
Unfortunately the torque curve was all to pot, it resembled a plane flying through volcanic ash, so with a further tweak on rolling road we settled on
188.3bhp @ 7192rpm & a nice flat torque curve of150ftlbs @5450rpm.
It now pulls like a train and is a pleasure to drive.
I used Motoscope for rolling road, and cant praise em enough
Something about this, so very wrong.....I have to laugh out loud, I wish I didn`t like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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