black fingernail
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:04 PM |
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Puma 1.7 conversion with pats and factory 104pin ecu
Hi, I have bought and installed a puma 1.7 zetec s engine in my robin hood. I would like to use the original ECU and loom which I have manage to wire
up almost. I have put power to the ecu and relays. Now im having problems making it spark. The PATS I think is disabled as when I remove the key
away from the transponder it will not crank, and when I put the key to the transponder it crank.
All the sensors are connected crack, vr sensor, cam….and so on and still no spark to the plug. I havnt tested the sensors yet tho
Dose the Pats disable to spark too? I don’t have the led connected to it yet so not sure what state the pats in.
Any help will be good.
Thanks jon
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big_wasa
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:10 PM |
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Best way is to put an led in so you can see whats going on.
Is the fuel pump running whilst cranking ? Thats a sure sign the pats is of.
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black fingernail
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:36 PM |
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Hi big wasa,
the fuel pump relay activates to 12v then within 1 second goes to about 6.3 v is this the pats kicking in again? I havent even got fuel running to it
yet. Im just testing for spark. I have the key it enables the start relay but not the spark and just wondering why.
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coozer
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:37 PM |
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ECU may be looking for all sorts, like door locks, windows, toaster etc, not just the pats.
Ford ecu are a clever banana that needs a slick operator to fool it. The younger they are the more the square head upstairs has applied his brain to
keeping you guessing.
I just hope the big_wasa can sort mine out when I get round to it.. if ever
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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big_wasa
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:41 PM |
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ok what age is the ecu ?
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big_wasa
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 08:45 PM |
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have you wired up the antena ?
There are four wires. early ones are colour coded. Latter ones all black.
black is earth orange is perm live ie 12v
The other two are Tx and Rx to the ecu.
To answer your question yes it cuts the spark.
Even with the wrong key the fuel pump will prime when you first turn the key.
Have you cut the wires in the loom ?
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black fingernail
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 09:05 PM |
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I did not get an antenna with the kit. Just engine ecu,key+encoder/transponder. and loom. the ecu i guess is same age as car 1999 ecu EEC-V V.2.
The Tx wht/green and RX grey/org are wired. the negative is bk/green on this according to workshop manual.
At the moment im just resting the key next to the encoder is it that inteligent it has to rotate?
Im guessing the pats is still enabled then for some reason. you probably know connectors c2 and c3. they are floating at the moment.
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black fingernail
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 09:09 PM |
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we have not cut any wires on the loom. We only have loom engine side not the whole car. do I need the dash fuse box. Im trying to bypass most of it
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Madinventions
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 10:51 PM |
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I've just finished installing the Puma engine and ECU into my kit so I can have a look through my notes or check any connections that you want
if it'll help?
I used the PATs antenna from a Fiesta wired into the Puma ECU loom and had a peculiar Ford issue - the wires were the same colours, but connected
differently!
On the Fiesta:
Pats 1 (ye/gn) goes to pin 19 on the ECU
Pats 2 (bk/gn) goes to ground
Pats 3 (gy/og) goes to pin 8 on the ECU
Pats 4 (wh/gn) goes to pin 53 on the ECU
On the Puma:
Pats 1 (ye/gn) goes to +12V ignition
Pats 2 (bk/gn) goes to ground
Pats 3 (gy/og) goes to pin 19 on the ECU
Pats 4 (wh/gn) goes to pin 53 on the ECU
This is using a 1996 Fiesta PATs antenna on a 1999 Puma ECU (code TAPE).
Get the Ford TIS DVD (available via BitTorrent) if you haven't already got it.
Ed.
PS: The 1.7VCT engine is superb in a kit - I'm sure you'll love it!
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Madinventions
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| posted on 8/6/10 at 11:01 PM |
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In answer to your other questions:
1 - The fuel pump will run for about 1 second when you turn the key, and then stop. This is normal.
2 - No, you don't really need the dash fusebox, just ignition key, PATs, and fuel pump wired to C2 and C3.
3 - The key doesn't need to rotate
4 - By 'antenna', I think we all mean the black plastic ring that goes around the key...
I test fired my engine like this:
 
PATs wiring
 
wiring
See the video here!
Ed.
[Edited on 8/6/10 by Madinventions]
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
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black fingernail
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 09:33 AM |
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Dear Ed, Great video and thank you very much for the pictures. And then you for your details.
I think I have the Pats connected correctly. I have done what you have for the moment put the antenna in c2 in that order and taped the key to it.
May I ask a couple of questions? In c2 where dose that white wire go in your pic? And the ignition you have their I’m guessing the red is live feed,
but the other 2 in c3 is for run and start? Please can you tell me the pin numbers please?
The trouble I have that the pre owner cut all the c2 and c3 wires from the other side.
I have the workshop manual, when I get to the C2 and C3 connector it don’t tell you much just bunch of letter and numbers like mb7-10 etc..
If you can give me a few detail on c2 and 3 that will be great cheers,
Hopefully I can then get it to run. P.s I haven’t put fuel through it yet so im hoping it will still spark without fuel. I’ going to connect the
fuel lines today and try.
Cant wait to hear from you.
Jon.
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black fingernail
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 10:14 AM |
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I re-frase. Not all the wires have been cut from c2&3 just a couple. Any help on these connectors will be great.
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Madinventions
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 10:43 AM |
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Hi Jon,
I don't have my notes with me today, but I've just had a quick look through the Ford TIS DVD and got this information. Hope this
helps?
Fuel pump drive - C2 pin 10 (switched +12V)
Ignition key 'run' - C3 pin 5 (switch to +12v when ignition key is in pos II)
Ignition key 'start' - C3 pin 10 (switch to +12v when ignition key is in pos III)
PATs 1 (ye/gn) - C2 pin 4
PATs 2 (bk/gn) - C2 pin 3
PATs 3 (gy/og) - C2 pin 1
PATs 4 (wh/gn) - C2 pin 2
I got these from drawings 303-14B-00-001/002 and 419-01B-00-002.
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
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View my band website:
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black fingernail
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 01:22 PM |
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Thanks Ed i'll let you know what happens.
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black fingernail
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 06:17 PM |
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Hi all, I have connected PATS the way you say, the live and switched live and fuel pump. Still no spark. still getting 12v to distributor but no
switching on the other 2 pins. attached is my best pic of the fuse box. anything else i could connect to these.
So the PATS could be still active, Pin5 on c2 is PATS led but i dont seem to be getting any voltage from that, i guess its code so i might have to buy
the clock/led display.
Tomorrow i will put fuel through it and I have borrowed a reader to plug in the data link see if it tells me any thing crack sensors and so on....
Cheers all.
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Madinventions
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 09:30 PM |
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Here's a better pic of mine for comparison. C2 and C3 wiring looks the same to me...
 
Puma fusebox
I see you've got a couple of extra relays - I'll just see if I can find out what these are and I'll be right back.
Ed.
[Edited on 9/6/10 by Madinventions]
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
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View my band website:
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Madinventions
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 09:42 PM |
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Ok... that's a bit strange. The only fusebox images I can find with these two relays shows the middle bottom one to be front fogs - and as far
as my information goes, these were not fitted to Pumas. The middle top green one is also labelled 'Pre glow relay diesel' on my diagrams.
Are you sure this ECU and fusebox came from the Puma? The image I found below is for a 1999 Fiesta diesel so this may help explain the lack of
spark?
 
Diesel fusebox
 
Petrol fusebox
The connectors you've got plugged into C2 and C3 appear to have the petrol wiring colours but perhaps Wasa could help us decipher your ECU code
(4 letter word on the ECU label)?
Ed.
[Edited on 9/6/10 by Madinventions]
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
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View my band website:
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Madinventions
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| posted on 9/6/10 at 10:07 PM |
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If it'll help, the fusebox in my photo is spare and sitting in a box although I had to chop off one of the connectors (16 pin injectors and VCT
valve) to modify my Fiesta loom. Hopefully it will turn out that you've got a Puma ECU, and just the fusebox is the odd one out? Let me know
if you want my loom?
For reference, the code on my Puma ECU is 'TAPE'. I also have a 'SNOB' which is a 1.25 Zetec SE Fiesta, and a
'MISS' which is a 1.4 Zetec SE Fiesta but I guess these won't have the variable cam timing software for the Puma?
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
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black fingernail
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 01:42 PM |
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Sill no luck with spark
It may turn out I do have a diesel fuse box and or loom, but what about things like the distributor connector, diesel injectors plugs. I wouldnt
imagine the the diesel loom having the same connectors I cant see how the fuse box and loom will get muddled up. thanks for the photos. The ECu has
TAPE on it.
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Madinventions
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 02:00 PM |
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True - it's probably a Ford parts bin special, or an option that isn't listed on the TIS DVD.
As I say, it'd be quite easy for me to check anything out on my loom if it'd help?
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
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View my band website:
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black fingernail
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 02:33 PM |
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Im going to go scrappers and get the clock/led unit like WASA agreed on. The PATS has enable the start relay i.e the switched ground pin start relay.
But maybe its disabled the spark circuit, remember im getting 12v to the distributor so i must had the correct fusebox/loom. Im guessing its in some
shut down mode. I put on OBC to it this morning but it didnt tell me much.
Diffinatly nothing else needed to be connected on c2/3? any seperate power for ecu? But i guess it gets all its power from the red and purple wire.
agagin must be getting power due to the crackin and 12v distributor just no other signals.
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Madinventions
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 04:33 PM |
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Ok, it would seem that the diesel fusebox may be a bit of a red herring, and both our ECUs are the TAPE type which is good. I agree that the PATs LED
will hopefully help show any PATs problems, and I think that if our fuseboxes are wired the same then you should have all the connections you need to
C2 and C3.
I think it'd be good to know what that extra green relay does though, just in case it is a significant factor... can you see where it's
wired to?
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
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http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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black fingernail
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 04:52 PM |
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I'll have a look at that green relay on saturday I would like to know what that dose.
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black fingernail
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 05:31 PM |
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I dont suppose you can do me a favour? Pin 5 on c2 should be the PATS led indicator signal. I measured the voltage and got nothing put an led on
this and got nothing.
Do you have a voltage out of pin5 on c2. like a flashing signal? Black/orange workshop page 413-07-00-001
I might just have to go get the actual led it may have some sort of code going to it???
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Madinventions
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| posted on 11/6/10 at 08:34 AM |
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Hi, The LED output on C2 pin 5 is an open collector output so it will either be open circuit or connected to ground. Therefore, you won't be
able to measure any voltage on this pin. I connected an LED as shown below when testing mine.
 
LED
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
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http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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