CairB
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 09:18 AM |
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For those with Duratecs and Type 9 gearboxes
Hi,
Now that it seems that quite a few are installing Duratecs along with type 9 gearboxes I though it worth dragging up this topic from the past as a
heads up.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=44227
Cheers,
Colin
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redeye
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 09:52 AM |
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Thanks Colin
Good advice
I bought my bellhousing second hand from a member of the tiger forum and thankfully it already has a mod to suit this 
 
Bellhousing
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 01:37 PM |
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Does this depend on whether you have the hydrolic or cable clutch bellhousing? I have the cable type and I not sure whether it is the same. Mines the
RWD version.
Not really clued up on these things so not sure what this all means
This is mine:
 
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 02:41 PM |
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Is this particular to Quaife or both Quaife and the Ford type 9?
Just fitted my engine sounds like it needs to come out again?
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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karlak
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 02:51 PM |
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I am a bit condused here.
the bit that I think is "circled" in the earlier thread is part of the gearbox that is meant to move in and out as you change gear.
Certainly this is what I noticed when having a play with mine.
The casting of the Bellhousing has a "cutout" in it to allow this small shaft to move in and and out as necessary. I think the problem is
that that some very early Duratec castings didnt have the cutout, meaning the shaft was not able to move in and out as required when changing gear.
I stand to be corrected but it certainly looked to me that the bellhousing had this cutout "built into" the design to allow this shaft to
move in and out.
The best picture i have is below - it shows the bellhousing from the inside. The "cutout" on the bellhousing can be seen to the left of
the main shaft hole that goes through the centre of the housing. This is what the gearbox "shaft" would move into when changing gear.
 
Description
But, hey what do I know 
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 02:56 PM |
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That was also my understanding and it does go in and out when you select the gears. I was assuming it was a problem on some where there is a hole
there but nothing to stop it going further (if that's what the original poster meant).
Your picture, like mine, shows the recess for it to move into but it is inset and closed so the shaft can't come too far out - well that's
what I assume!
Not really sure other than that what the problem is?
Mark
Tiger Avon
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 03:01 PM |
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Sim if you look at the picture again you will see the shaft you reffer too directly opposite just behind the input shaft.
But I cant say I remember seeing the one this thread reffers to
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 03:08 PM |
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Looking at the diagram below the lay shaft shouldnt be able to move forward because there is a shoulder at the opposite end, however I can see how it
may be prone to leaking oil as there will not be anything holding the gasket against the shaft end
[img]
 
Type 9
[/img]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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redeye
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 03:12 PM |
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quote:
The recess in the bellhousing is to cater for the heavy duty Type 9 boxes. The layshaft on these is supported by a larger roller bearing and the
housing for this protudes from the front of the gearbox housing.
on the non hd type boxes however you will have a problem if this shaft is allowed to come too far out.
you can see in the photo of the OPs original bellhousing that the shaft would be held in by the face of the bellhousing.
My bellhousing came with a modification to stop the shaft moving into the space designed for the HD box.
Bellhousing
Hope that is clear
Patrick
[Edited on 24/8/11 by redeye]
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 04:08 PM |
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Looking at another picture of mine it appears to have a bolt in there (bottom right hand corner (ish) of the pic, black stud you can see) which I
assume stops the movement?
This compares to another pic (se7ensports I think) that shows the hole with nothing in?
 
RWD Bellhousing
 
RWD Bellhousing
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 04:27 PM |
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You are looking in the wrong place the center photograph shows a cavity at 6 oclock it is in that cavity that the shaft lies therefore nothing is
stopping the shaft move towards the engine.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 04:58 PM |
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That cavity and black stud is at 6 o'clock (not quite as the picture is at a slight angle) - the cut out in the bellhousing in my pic is for the
clutch release arm (I'm not using hydrolic) not the starter motor if that's where you were taking the orientation from.
The bellhousing sits pretty much as it is in that picture, with the clutch release arm coming out at 7 o'clock in reality, but appear about 8
o'clock in that pic.
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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neilp1
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 06:15 PM |
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Why is nothing I do straight forward!!!!
So that's a mod to the bellhousing. I'm just pleased I haven't fitted it yet!!
Neil
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CairB
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 06:24 PM |
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Hi,
The item circled in the thread I referred to is the layshaft which doesn't move in and out when changing gear.
On the old cast iron pinto bellhousing the casting was flush around this area so prevented movement.
The layshaft has a 9-10mm long tang at the other (inside) end to prevent it from rotating, so if it moves forward by this distance it will cause
serious problems. The layshaft doesn't have other means of holding it in at the input shaft end.
By some of the photos it looks like the issue is known and been addressed by some, but there my be some that are using the non hd gearbox with the
recess in the bellhousing unfilled.
I was using a quaife hd gearbox.
HTH
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flak monkey
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 08:21 PM |
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Basically what CairB says. The layshaft needs retaining in the gearbox somehow. Whether its with a spacer/wedge, plate or whatever it needs to be held
in there somehow or it will find it's way out eventually.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 08:25 PM |
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Engine back out then, thanks for your comment David
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 10:00 PM |
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I just checked mine and there is a bolt in there (head on the gearbox side so you just feel thread coming through), so I assume that's there to
stop the problem? It sits slightly higher than the horizontal line made across the 2 bottom securing bolts (that hold bellhousing to the gearbox).
Does that sound right? Don't want the engine out ideally!!
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 10:09 PM |
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TTS you are looking in the wrong place you cannot see the pocket which needs filling/packing when the bellhousing is fitted to the gearbox.
Look at the first picture posted by redeye, you will see a hexagonal piece of alluminium located in the cavity/pocket in question. The hexagonal piece
will press against he end of the layshaft.
I think like me you will need to take out the engine and make up a packing peice similar to redeye's
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/8/11 at 10:34 PM |
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That is exactly where I am looking. I have a bolt going through from inside the pocket so I can feel the thread coming through the other side. I
assume that it is in there so that the head of the bolt (which I can't see) stops the problem occuring?
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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redeye
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| posted on 25/8/11 at 08:35 AM |
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Mark
If you look at the Tiger forum pete (pjay) the Tiger forum Who I believe you a familiar with has the same bellhousing as you.
he also shows some pics of his bellhousing which apears to have a bolt in the hole you're talking about
Im not sure if you purchased them from the same place but It may be worth asking him if the bolt was there when he bought it.
http://viatron.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1037152
http://viatron.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1038998
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 25/8/11 at 09:57 AM |
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Hi,
Yes, we both got them from RWD motorsport and the bolt came already in the hole, as with mine. I am 99.9% that mine is OK. RWD are on holiday until
next week but I will call them to make sure when they are back.
Mark
Tiger Avon
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se7ensport
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| posted on 25/8/11 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Super Six
Looking at another picture of mine it appears to have a bolt in there (bottom right hand corner (ish) of the pic, black stud you can see) which I
assume stops the movement?
This compares to another pic (se7ensports I think) that shows the hole with nothing in?
RWD Bellhousing
RWD Bellhousing
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
[Edited on 24/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Bollox, engine back out.
Big thanks to Colin for pointing this flaw out, would have been good if RWDmotorsport had...
edit: sorry Colin.
[Edited on 27/8/11 by se7ensport]
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 26/8/11 at 08:16 AM |
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I've written to Titan to ask them why they don't make people aware and that they may be causing issues for people doing conversions no
reply as yet.
My Engine is coming out this weekend too!!
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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redeye
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| posted on 26/8/11 at 08:18 AM |
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quote:
Big thanks to Claire for pointing this flaw out, would have been good if RWDmotorsport had...
Erm.....do you mean Colin?
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se7ensport
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 10:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by redeye
quote:
Big thanks to Claire for pointing this flaw out, would have been good if RWDmotorsport had...
Erm.....do you mean Colin?
Thanks redeye, error amended.
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