Gear Monkey
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 09:11 AM |
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XR4X4 Cologne V6
Hello,
I have the engine and box from an XR4X4 kicking about and upon closer inspection I see it has a nice light ally Bellhousing which I understand is
quite a sought after part. I'm about to embark on a new chassis (the one I have is to the old RC book and a little cramped) and wondered if I
may be able to utilise it in some way. The V6 lump while quite cool weights as much as a small elephant and the gearbox has the front wheel drive
output and front diff still attached .
So my questions are:
1 - What ford engines will the Ally bellhousing (MT75 I believe) fit to without any modification? It has to be light and capable of 150bhp +
2-Will a RWD gearbox mate to the bellhousing easily?
3- Do transit boxes have unsuitable ratio's as I believe these are MT75's and there are lots of them about
4 - As the front diff which is relatively small any good in a locost? It's certainly mega light!
Thanks 
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big_wasa
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 09:24 AM |
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If your box is the mt75 then the bell housing is alloy but worthless on its own as its integral to the gear box If you get a 2wd drive mt75 from a
sierra/granada then you can build a v6 2wd hybid.
The trani box is differant again.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 09:27 AM |
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The bell housing is different from the 4 pot bell housings and will only fit the cologne and essex v6 and v4 engines.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mookaloid
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 09:27 AM |
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The bell housing is different from the 4 pot bell housings and will only fit the cologne and essex v6 and v4 engines.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 10:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
The bell housing is different from the 4 pot bell housings and will only fit the cologne and essex v6 and v4 engines.
The Essex V6 was a different block than the cologne. Are you sure this bell housing will fit the 3L Essex? I thought it only fitted the cologne
block 12v and 24v cosworth.
[Edited on 17-12-11 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Chippy
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 10:58 AM |
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The best convertion of the 4 x 4 box is to combine it with the Diesel box which has better ratio's, this is what I have in mine. If I remember
correctly the Cologne has the same bolt pattern as any (real) Ford, so should fit the four pots, Pinto, Zetec etc. (but will require the Caterham
convertion plate as the shaft sticks out 1 1/4" , but not the later non Ford engines, Duratec etc. as the bell housing is not removable. HTH
Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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snapper
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 11:00 AM |
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Fords bell housing patterns were standard 4 in line which fits all engines from Crossflow to Zetec.
Ford V engines had the same bolt pattern from V4 Essex to V6 Cologne.
Straight and V engines have different patterns.
The Duratec is a Mazda engine, different bell pattern
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Gear Monkey
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 12:12 PM |
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Thanks for the info chaps.....I'll sling it on Ebay!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 03:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Fords bell housing patterns were standard 4 in line which fits all engines from Crossflow to Zetec.
Ford V engines had the same bolt pattern from V4 Essex to V6 Cologne.
Straight and V engines have different patterns.
The Duratec is a Mazda engine, different bell pattern
The V4 was the Taunus engine and not cologne or Essex. The cologne was used for the 2.8 and 2.9 12v engines as well as the 2.9 cosweorth 24v. The
Essex was the Capri 3L, and different to the cologne IIRC due to it being cast iron, not Ali.
As chippy says, I thought the cologne bell housing fitted the pinto and zetec, but I've never tried this.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Chippy
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
The V4 was the Taunus engine and not cologne or Essex. The cologne was used for the 2.8 and 2.9 12v engines as well as the 2.9 cosweorth 24v. The
Essex was the Capri 3L, and different to the cologne IIRC due to it being cast iron, not Ali.
As chippy says, I thought the cologne bell housing fitted the pinto and zetec, but I've never tried this.
Not quite correct, but close. The Essex was fitted in the Mk1 Granada as well. The Essex AND the Cologne were/are both cast iron lumps, as well as the
Cosworth, although that has got alloy heads, (still a ton wieght though, :-) The engine sizes were 2.3 and 2.8 for the Cologne, and 2.4 and 2.9 for
the Taunus, which does have an english derivative name but escapes me at the mo, :-( Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/12/11 at 06:25 PM |
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Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 09:10 AM |
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A Cologne Bellhousing will not fit a Essex V6 or any 4 cylinder engine, totally different, had lots over the years. It will fit the Cosworth V6 BOA
and BOB which are based on Cologne blocks.
Cologne V6's came in 2.3, 2.4, 2.8 and 2.9 derivayives in the UK, on the continent there were smaller sizes.
[Edited on 18/12/11 by Paul Turner]
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Chippy
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 11:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
A Cologne Bellhousing will not fit a Essex V6 or any 4 cylinder engine, totally different, had lots over the years. It will fit the Cosworth V6 BOA
and BOB which are based on Cologne blocks.
Cologne V6's came in 2.3, 2.4, 2.8 and 2.9 derivayives in the UK, on the continent there were smaller sizes.
[Edited on 18/12/11 by Paul Turner]
Totaly disagree, all the Ford engines had the same bolt pattern. The Essex was fitted with the Type 5 gearbox, which was also fitted to the early 2.8
Capri and Granada's. From the begining of 1983, (ish), the Type 9 box replaced it, and was used on all Capri, Granada and Sierra's from
1.6 to 2.9's, and as a four wheel drive on the XR 4 X 4, both 2.8 and 2.9's. After late 1988 the type 9 was replaced by the MT75, in both
2 and 4 wheel drive, and all engine sizes, 1.6 through to the 2.9i. The only diference between the four pots and the V6 gearboxes was that the input
shaft is longer, (by 1 1/4" ), on the V6 engines, but this can be overcome by using a spacer between the engine and box. One very good reason to
use the V6 box is that it has, (slightly), better ratios. Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 18/12/11 at 11:24 AM |
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Cannot post pictures but I can 100% assure you that there is a difference and its a big difference.
All 4 cylinders from pre x-flow to original Mondeo/Focus Zetec used a common bolt pattern.
All Cologne V6's used a common bolt pattern.
All Essex V6's used a common bolt pattern, was told the UK V4 was the same but never even seen one.
The Duratec is a unique bolt pattern.
The Sigma engine (i.e. Fiesta, Puma and small capacity Focus) is a unique bolt pattern.
That's at least 5 different bolt patterns.
If someone can post photo's I have plenty of 4 cylinder and Cologne variants.
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Liam
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| posted on 19/12/11 at 09:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
A Cologne Bellhousing will not fit a Essex V6 or any 4 cylinder engine, totally different, had lots over the years. It will fit the Cosworth V6 BOA
and BOB which are based on Cologne blocks.
Cologne V6's came in 2.3, 2.4, 2.8 and 2.9 derivayives in the UK, on the continent there were smaller sizes.
[Edited on 18/12/11 by Paul Turner]
Totaly disagree, all the Ford engines had the same bolt pattern. The Essex was fitted with the Type 5 gearbox, which was also fitted to the early 2.8
Capri and Granada's. From the begining of 1983, (ish), the Type 9 box replaced it, and was used on all Capri, Granada and Sierra's from
1.6 to 2.9's, and as a four wheel drive on the XR 4 X 4, both 2.8 and 2.9's. After late 1988 the type 9 was replaced by the MT75, in both
2 and 4 wheel drive, and all engine sizes, 1.6 through to the 2.9i. The only diference between the four pots and the V6 gearboxes was that the input
shaft is longer, (by 1 1/4" ), on the V6 engines, but this can be overcome by using a spacer between the engine and box. One very good reason to
use the V6 box is that it has, (slightly), better ratios. Cheers Ray
Sorry that's not right - the Cologne V6 bolt pattern is very different to the 4-pots.
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