pmc_3
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:26 PM |
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Engine choice
Looks like i'm about to embark a project reviving another old Dutton Phaeton S1, the car hasn't been on the road for 20 years so will be
completely stripped and rebuilt. This is a shoestring project so no zetecs, bike carbs, megajolt etc
It currently has a 1300 xflow with a mk2 Cortina gearbox.
Ideally i'd like something with around 130bhp that does not cost the world to install and only needs simple wiring. My initial thoughts are of a
20seh out of a Cavalier SRI mated to a Manta gearbox I reckon I could get the engine with ancillaries and gearbox for less than £200. Another thought
was a XR2 CVH with some twin 40's, would the CVH mate to the Cortina box?
Any other suggestions? Obviously if I had more money to spend I would be looking at an XE or Zetec
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blakep82
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:31 PM |
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ecotec xev makes a cheaper alternative to the xe! same block, so anything you'd use (bar a few things like clutch plates) to fit an xe can be
used for an xev
a few years ago i ought an xev with fwd gearbox for about £150, with all injection parts fitten, can't rememeber if it still had the ecu fitted
or not... alternator starter everything.
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:31 PM |
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Youve got £200 to spend on an XR2 engine, so why not spend that on a Zetec? How much do you think they cost!
I bought a 1.8 for £50 once. For £200 you must be able to get the ECU and everything else with it. Or buy a car (old mondeo) for £200 and take what
you want. Then you can scrap / break the remainder.
Adapting an engine to another gearbox is an expensive business and takes a lot of time to get right (clutch, release bearings, spigot bearings,
adapter plate etc etc etc).
If your looking for an economy build, keep it simple and use what has already been developed. Development costs can sky rocket.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:33 PM |
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The Phaeton runs a Cortina Mk2 rear axle on cart springs, the springs locate the axle. I suspect that if you have 130bhp, 80bhp will be driving the
car and 50bhp will be winding up the springs until the prop gets dragged out of the gearbox.
What you have already is probably the best combination for the car, will save you loads of money too. You really don't need loads of bhp to have
a great deal of fun in these cars. 
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:34 PM |
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volvo b230 - 136 hp normally aspirated , comes with a rwd gearbox........
only trouble is it cants over
what about a boat anchor! or an mx5 setup.
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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pmc_3
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 07:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
ecotec xev makes a cheaper alternative to the xe! same block, so anything you'd use (bar a few things like clutch plates) to fit an xe can be
used for an xev
a few years ago i ought an xev with fwd gearbox for about £150, with all injection parts fitten, can't rememeber if it still had the ecu fitted
or not... alternator starter everything.
I've had a couple of cars with the XEV and they had all sorts of sensor issues and I think wiring could be an issue for me. Just want to keep
things nice and simple!
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
The Phaeton runs a Cortina Mk2 rear axle on cart springs, the springs locate the axle. I suspect that if you have 130bhp, 80bhp will be driving the
car and 50bhp will be winding up the springs until the prop gets dragged out of the gearbox.
What you have already is probably the best combination for the car, will save you loads of money too. You really don't need loads of bhp to have
a great deal of fun in these cars.
The S1 uses trailing arms and no leaf springs. The last one I owned had a Triumph GT6 engine and that went ok but was bit heavy.
quote:
Youve got £200 to spend on an XR2 engine, so why not spend that on a Zetec? How much do you think they cost!
I bought a 1.8 for £50 once. For £200 you must be able to get the ECU and everything else with it. Or buy a car (old mondeo) for £200 and take what
you want. Then you can scrap / break the remainder.
Adapting an engine to another gearbox is an expensive business and takes a lot of time to get right (clutch, release bearings, spigot bearings,
adapter plate etc etc etc).
If your looking for an economy build, keep it simple and use what has already been developed. Development costs can sky rocket.
You can pick up an XR2 cvh for about £50. From what i've read it just seems a lot of hassle going down the Zetec route.
I know mating a engine to a different gearbox gets expensive with bell housing adapters that why I was looking at ford with ford and vauxhall with
vauxhall
[Edited on 7/2/12 by pmc_3]
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blakep82
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 08:14 PM |
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i've got no sensors left in mine, and its on carbs, so minimal electrics 
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 08:16 PM |
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I could install a zetec for that sort of money.
It would be no frills with cast exhaust mani' but still give 136~bhp with the ability to upgrade as and when.
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scotty g
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 08:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I could install a zetec for that sort of money.
It would be no frills with cast exhaust mani' but still give 136~bhp with the ability to upgrade as and when.
agree with wasa here, a zetec can go in very cheap and basic then be upgraded as and when. or not at all. It's all about choice innit?
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pmc_3
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 08:33 PM |
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If I went down the Zetec route aren't there a lot of additional parts required? I'd need a beefier box type 9 and then i'm sure
i've read about starter motors, water rails etc and then how difficult to wire in on standard management are there not immobilisers and things
to worry about?
Like I say i'm open to suggestions and i've had some Zetec powered cars and know they are cracking engines
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 08:36 PM |
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"The S1 uses trailing arms and no leaf springs. The last one I owned had a Triumph GT6 engine and that went ok but was bit heavy. "
I helped build an S2 in 1982 (Herald front and Cortina Mk2 rear) I assumed that the S1 might be more primitive rather than more sophisticated!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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pmc_3
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 09:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
"The S1 uses trailing arms and no leaf springs. The last one I owned had a Triumph GT6 engine and that went ok but was bit heavy. "
I helped build an S2 in 1982 (Herald front and Cortina Mk2 rear) I assumed that the S1 might be more primitive rather than more sophisticated!
You would of thought later ones would be more advanced but thats not the case! The S1 is only 4 linked though so could do with a 5th link adding. I
thought only the S3 and S4 had leaf springs, they had a horrid longer rear end to try and hide the spring hangers.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 09:08 PM |
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Your T9 will be fine with standard zetec.
I am not going to tell you its easy to wire up the ecu but as you are local I would lend a hand.
If you want to go that route then pm me and I will tell you what you need.
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pmc_3
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 09:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Your T9 will be fine with standard zetec.
I am not going to tell you its easy to wire up the ecu but as you are local I would lend a hand.
If you want to go that route then pm me and I will tell you what you need.
Thanks for the offer I might contact you when I am nearer the stage. The car doesn't have a type 9 box currently, its a mk2 Cortina 4 speed
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AndyW
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 10:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I could install a zetec for that sort of money.
It would be no frills with cast exhaust mani' but still give 136~bhp with the ability to upgrade as and when.
I second what Warren says, my 2.0 blacktop zetec cost me £50 wired up to original ecu all in cheap and starts and runs perfect.
If you do go zetec, take big_wasa's advice.
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ali f27
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| posted on 7/2/12 at 11:07 PM |
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2.3 out of granda 2.0 rs 2000 absolutely great engine 150 bhp standard run off wasted spark no ecu have a look into it tunable later if you want we
got genuine 200 bhp out of 2.3 on 45s with cams
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 8/2/12 at 09:57 AM |
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I don't see why you can't use the 4 speed with the zetec, being ford I think they are mechanically the same as the type 9 in terms of
clutch etc. I think the type 9 is a bit longer than the 4 speed so may need a new prop.. The only snag I see budget wise will be shortening the
sump??
[Edited on 8/2/12 by Bluemoon]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/2/12 at 11:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmc_3
You can pick up an XR2 cvh for about £50.
Which will very likely need a new cam and followers. The were virtualy service items on these.
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pmc_3
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| posted on 8/2/12 at 10:34 PM |
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I suppose if the Zetec can mate to the existing 4 speed box I maybe able to get away with using the existing prop and if I can run it on standard
management it becomes a very good budget option.
[Edited on 8/2/12 by pmc_3]
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FASTdan
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 08:14 AM |
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There cant be much cost saving in a CVH over zetec as already said. The only big one that springs to mind is the ECU purchase (whereas CVH obviously
comes with a simple dizzy).
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