theduck
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 posted on 4/3/12 at 04:34 PM |
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I'm doing something wrong, help!
Got my new pinto in and setup today and having exactly the same problem as I did with the previous engine.
The only things the same between the two is clutch, flywheel and distributor. I get spark, I get fuel but it doesn't start.
I need help as to what to check, how to check it, and how to put it right. I will supply photos etc of anything anyone needs to help me diagnose why
it won't start. If I can't solve this then it's going to have to go and I will be forced to admit that a kit is beyond my ability
[Edited on 4/3/12 by theduck]
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verybudgetzetec
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 04:45 PM |
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distributor timing, you need someone to crank the motor over whllst you turn the distributor by hand, one way or the other until it kicks over, also
pour a little fuel down the plug holes first, put plugs n all back in then go for it!
hope this helps a bit!
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T66
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 04:59 PM |
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Plug leads on the right way?
Cap good , rotor arm good, leads good, with sparks?
With fuel present, it is as suggested likely to be the timing of the distributor. With No1 piston on its compression stroke, does the rotor arm point
at No1 lead ?
Just loosen the distributor, and try a few different positions with it, then turn the engine over. Easier with a helper....
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bi22le
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:02 PM |
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Has to be timing.
As said, give the dizzy cap a twist. Easy timing check \ change!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:17 PM |
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Leads, cap, arm and plugs are all new.
Will give verybudgetzetecs suggestion a go, just to calrify, I getsomeone to crank the engine while I rotate the distributor, at one position it
should fire and thenninjust tighten it all back up?
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:28 PM |
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Are you running the VV carb as in the 'its in' post.
If so that could be the problem and or the associated fuel shut off valve.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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verybudgetzetec
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:31 PM |
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have you a timing gun?
just turn the distributor a small amount at a time until it fires or starts to sound like it wants to go, from that point its just slight movements
until it fires
as said above checke the ignition leads from the dizzy to the plugs are correct, i still get this wrong ALOT lol
just think- your not to far off..............from it firing up woop woop!
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:36 PM |
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Jollygreengiant - yes running the carb that's in that photo, any more info on the fuel shut off valve?
Verybudgetzetec - I'll give it a go, cheers
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:43 PM |
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The fuel shut off valve does what it says on the tin.
It shuts off the fuel when you turn off the ignition.
Put a switched live onto the post on the valve,or
remove and blank it off.If it doesnt have a power supply
the engine will never start.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:03 PM |
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Thanks Andy, any idea what it looks like?
May have just had a eureka money actually as I thinking
Know the bit your taking about...
While I go check that out does this photo of My distributor look right?
In the Haynes the cutout is in between the two arms and on mine its directly above one?
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Dusty
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:07 PM |
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There are several dizzies from sierra engines and all need to have the correct separate amplifier box or computer wired in with them. I noticed your
post earlier when enquiring about a one wire dizzy (?points. ? from old cortina or capri)) and a two wire/three pin plug dizzy (probably inductive
sierra).
They all need to be joined to the right electronic box of tricks.
What sort of dizzy are you using and does it have the correct electronic box installed with it?
Photos would help!!!
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:08 PM |
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Looks ok to me.The arm on the left is pointing
at the little mark on the distributor body. I take it
the engine is at tdc?
Andy
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:20 PM |
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Dusty - yes was asking about the cortina dizzy earlier but have since realised I need te Sierra one in as that's the one the cars is wired for
and is now in and wired to motorcraft box.
Car is at tdc in that photo.
I think the guys on the fuel cut off switch may be on the money as can see on the carb an electrical connector I have nothing connected to. What I
can't see is how to remove it if it is the fuel cut off? Photo below
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:29 PM |
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I used to work on Pintos quite a bit back in the day.
Have you checked you are actually getting a spark at the plugs when the engine is turned over by conecting one of the plug leads to a spare spark
plug thats sat on an earthed surface ?
If all is ok in the spark department and youre sure the distributor timing is approx correct then proceed to squirt a small amount of fuel into the
mouth of the carb whilst someone else is turning the engine over.. If this seems to make the engine catch (and almost start) more than it was before
then the fault has to be fuel related and you first need to remove the pipe between fuel pump and carb and check that fuel pumps out under pressure
when someone is turning the engine over. If the pump is delivering fuel ok you next need to check the spec of the VV carb you are running to see if
it has an inbuilt fuel shutoff valve. If so then this needs to be connected to a live supply (on when the ignition is on) so that shutoff valve is
held open.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:30 PM |
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That would be the kiddie, just as a temporary measure only, run a wire from the battery positve to the lucar terminal on the switch and then try
starting it. IF you take it out you will have to seal and blank the hole off, they were fitted on the VV carb for a reason. If neccessary you could
always put a switch in the line to act as a secondary security measure until you wire it into the ignition or replace THAT carb with a or some proper
carbs.
Edit bit,
The VV carb was great when it worked well, but it could go into some spurious fail modes that could give all sorts of non start and running problems.
Mostly they got junked for either a single weber or multiple choke/body webers.
The needle wears, the needle sleeve wears, the diaphrams fail, the floats could fail/go into over fueling/flooding mode and they were generally a pain
in the AR$E.
[Edited on 4/3/12 by jollygreengiant]
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 06:35 PM |
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Bingo! We may have found our problem then.
SWMBO has just requested dinner so once I've solved that problem i will put a temporary live to that terminal ad fingers crossed that's
all the problem is!
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Andy D
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Thanks Andy, any idea what it looks like?
May have just had a eureka money actually as I thinking
Know the bit your taking about...
While I go check that out does this photo of My distributor look right?
In the Haynes the cutout is in between the two arms and on mine its directly above one?
I'd say there's something wrong there. Engine is at TDC, and the rotor arm (cut out on spindle) is pointing correctly at the mark on the
body, but the trigger wheel is way off alignment. (No where near firing the point) I know from experience, if you turn the engine over with the dizzy
cap off, the cap retaining clip can flop in, and jam the trigger wheel.
I'd say the trigger wheel needs nudging round, so it's roughly in line with the four static "stators"?? Anyone else agree?
Will try and find a pic...
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:08 PM |
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When you put a live feed to the valve it will respond
with a solid click.To remove it it will unscrew,you should find a
13mm ish hex in the end nearest the carb.
Andy D; you are right,when i look again,it isnt lined up.It needs shifting around so the pick ups line up.
My mate has a weber twin choke and manifold from a Sierra for sale if you
want to replace what you have.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:23 PM |
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Andy D, that's what i was getting at. How do I correct this?
Lotusmadandy - got that Sussed now but think the above is what's stopping it from starting.
I have got two other carbs, a webber 34 ich and a webber twinchoke but these are setup for a 2,0 pinto, so wanted to use this one for now as
it's the one that was running the engine prior to me buying it.
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:29 PM |
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As Andy d says,you should be able to 'nudge' the pickups around to line up with the
trigger by using screwdriver or similar.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
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Andy D
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Andy D, that's what i was getting at. How do I correct this?
Lotusmadandy - got that Sussed now but think the above is what's stopping it from starting.
I have got two other carbs, a webber 34 ich and a webber twinchoke but these are setup for a 2,0 pinto, so wanted to use this one for now as
it's the one that was running the engine prior to me buying it.
The trigger wheel is just a tight fit on the spindle, just tap it round with a screwdriver or something, so it's about in line. (With the engine
at TDC, as in your pic)
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Andy D
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:39 PM |
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Hurry up, Top gear's on shortly. 
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 07:54 PM |
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Ok trigger wheel moved and looks as below, fuel cut off has a live feed and clicks as it should, but still won't start
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theduck
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 08:04 PM |
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So the little metal prongs need to be in line with the Mark on the dizzy? Then the trigger wheel prong moved in line with that again?
Edit: where did andyds last post go?
[Edited on 4/3/12 by theduck]
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 08:05 PM |
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The rotor is now pointing at the mark and the cut off is wired,it should start.
Is the dizzy in correctly and not 180deg out? does it show any signs of wanting
to fire? Its not flooded is it?
I deleted my last post because i realised i was talking bollocks.The rotor should be lined up with the little mark,not the segments.
Andy
[Edited on 4/3/12 by lotusmadandy]
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