monck
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 posted on 16/3/12 at 10:52 PM |
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Strange proplem
Hi everyone im calling on anyone that can help ...
I know its long but i want to explain it properly as im no mechanic
Thanks to locostmadandy i got my megasquirt wiring right ... That is the good news 
So i think im all set to start it up finally ....
Errrm WRONG !!!
I turned it over with fuel pump disconnected and i have spark finally (turns over perfect)
Connect pump turn it over then and after a few turns big clunk / bang !!! 
I tried again and it wouldn't turn over just one click
Tried to turn over by hand and its solid
After throwing a spanner and calming down i spoke to Andy who recommended checking the Vr housing had not got lose and gone into the fly wheel witch i
did by removing starter and its fine ....
I thought id try to turn it over again by hand with starter still removed and it does ???
Put starter back in disconnect pump crank it all day long with no issues
Connect fuel pump turns over a few times then locks up again 
Try to turn over by hand its solid
remove starter again and it turns by hand !!
The flywheel is a tiger racing lightened one and the starter i have no idea but both where on my 1.8 and worked fine ...
The only thing i have had done to the starter is i took it in a place that recon them as it wouldn't throw out every time you turned the key on
the old engine and they replaced the gear
I think its down to this as why else would the engine turn freely again after removing it the question is why does it do it when the engines firing
trying to start ?
I have the old gear bit they replace if anyone could take mine apart and compare ?
I will ring them tomorow and see what they say also ....
Ryan
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/3/12 at 11:34 PM |
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Hydraulic lock? Fuel filling the cylinders?
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monck
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| posted on 16/3/12 at 11:37 PM |
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Andy suggested this but it turns over freely as soon as i remove starter and does sound like metal on metal when it locks .. so surely its the starter
?
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maccmike
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| posted on 16/3/12 at 11:39 PM |
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starter
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monck
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| posted on 16/3/12 at 11:46 PM |
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Maccmike ... Do you know why it appears normal and doesn't jam when pumps not running and cranking but jam's when its trying to fire ?
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austin man
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:16 AM |
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sounds like the starter is sticking in as it tries to fire are you sure you have the plug leads in the right order you may be firing out of order ie
180 degrees out
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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maccmike
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:20 AM |
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I dont sorry, but if it didnt throw out all the time before, the recon could be preventing it returning. starter fault would be the first thing id
look at. If its road worthy, try to jump start it without starter fitted. Im friendly with a salvage yard purely on mutual interests and they'll
lend me any part to fault diagnose. If you can do that also its a great way of tracing faults for free. give an update when you try solutions as id be
interested
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:33 AM |
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Cheers lad's
Plug's are in order checked many times but ill check again
I thought about bump starting also but its not fit for the road yet and my drives gravel
Like you say i could do with borrowing a starter and see what happens
mine is not a lucas707 its the smaller one cant remember number ...
But i doubt unless someone on here locals got one ill have 2 buy one
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austin man
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:37 AM |
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have you modified the sump on the zetec it does nees a section cutting out and a plate rewelding (creating a small recess)as this causes the starter
to sit at the wrong angle if not modified
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:42 AM |
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Yes mate i cut the alloy section of the sump to make room for starter so it fits properly
Surely if that where the case it would not turn it over normally without fuel ?
Thanks
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austin man
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:46 AM |
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I take it you are using the CVH or DOHC starter from the sierra and not the standard sierra one. If you are using the stanstard sierra one you need
the 14mm spacer if not the starter will throw beyond the flywheel. Just looking at he simple possibilities for you
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:50 AM |
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Im unsure of the starters exact identity but worked absolutely fine with the same flywheel on my 1.8 zetec last year and did not have spacers when i
removed to my knowledge
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Macbeast
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 07:28 AM |
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When the fuel is disconnected and the engine is turning over freely on the starter, is it turning the right way ? I had brushes replaced on starter
once and they wired it up wrongly. If the engine fires and turns the pinion against the way it wants to turn, it might lock up.
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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johnwilders
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 07:33 AM |
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Try taking the plugs out when you spin it over with fuel
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snapper
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 07:34 AM |
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The locking up problem sounds like a soloniod throwing out but not turning.
I had a big problem with a Mondeo starter jamming.
If it only jams when the fuel pump is running then it's an electrical problem, isolate both, check all earths as the starter will draw a lot of
amps, set up a manual switched starting system and have a switch in the fuel pump circuit so you can crank then throw the switch to the pump.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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dlatch
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 10:37 AM |
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i am with snapper on this one !!
assuming the starter is definitely the correct one its pretty much the only other possibility. you could also try it by disconnecting the negative on
the battery after it jams just to check its the solenoid that's jamming
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 10:53 AM |
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Just to throw in my tuppence worth,
I also believe its the starter causing the
locking up. You need to get it tested
or try a substitute motor,to be sure.
The injectors wont throw in enough
fuel in a couple of turns to hydraulic the
engine.
Andy
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 12:20 PM |
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Thanks all i think another starter is needed to see what happens
just hope i can find one to try this weekend
Ill keep you all posted
Ryan
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adrianreeve
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 01:42 PM |
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I had exactly this problem a couple of weeks ago!
The symptoms were identical, as previously suggested, it was the starter. When the starter was fitted, it was a really tight fit to the sump, just
enough to not sit quite square. As a result it would occasionally jam the pinion, effectively locking the engine solid. In my case, re-fitting the
starte very carefully was enough to cure the problem, and it's been fine since.
Cheers
Adrian
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 01:48 PM |
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Thanks Adrian i will check again but i wasn't shy with the grinder when i modified the sump ...
Did yours turn over without the engine firing ?
Spoke to the guy who changed the gear / pinion waste of time he said defiantly not to do with him but might be starter its self so not to helpful
...
Ryan
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adrianreeve
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 01:51 PM |
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Yes, it turned over fine, just wouldn't catch, then bang, wouldn't budge!
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 01:56 PM |
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Im on it now mate im positive the fitment is fine but i will check again as it seems unlikely we would have thew same problem with different causes
?
Im hopefully going to get another starter to try tonight also if my mate has one ..
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 03:36 PM |
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Ignition timing way way out and firing early causing the piston to stall as it rises in the bore??. take the plugs out ground to the block ( to save
the coil )and remove the fuel pump fuse. Crank over and check the timing with a strobe light.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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monck
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 03:55 PM |
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starter fitment is fine i looked in with a light and the starter gear was jammed in the flywheel ..
Omega? Would timing cause the starter to jam in the flywheel ?
cheers
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adrianreeve
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| posted on 17/3/12 at 04:16 PM |
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Thats what mine did. Solenoid pulled the pinion out, then slight misalignment caused it to jam hard against the ring gear, so that it wouldn't
retract. Sounds like you've looked at this several times now though, so maybe we did have identical symptoms with different causes?
Good luck sorting it out.
Cheers
Adrian
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