silky16v
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 11:29 AM |
|
|
Wanted Longer 1st Gear Type 9
where can i get a longer 1st rear ratio for my Type 9 gearbox?
or do i have to buy a full gearkit?
i have someone locally who will assemble the gearbox for me
|
|
|
|
|
rash12
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 11:37 AM |
|
|
i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 12:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rash12
i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear
i'm looking for an off the shelf item as finding a diesel type 9 won't be easy
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 12:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rash12
i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear
I thought it had a very short first??
The capri 2.8 or XR4i box is what you want, but I think it is a complete gearset.
Alternatively BGH do a long first setup http://bghgeartech.co.uk/html/gear_kits.html
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 01:42 PM |
|
|
P100/Desiel box has 3.9 1st
Standard Type 9 has 3.6
V6 Type 9 has 3.3 and a longer input shaft
Burtons do a 2.98 main shaft first gear and used layshaft £280
I think 1st should be 2.7 to 2.5 with a 3.9 diff
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 03:31 PM |
|
|
^^ the advantage of the BGH kit is that for a few ££ extra you can significantly boost the strength of the box too 
I was going to use a HD long 1st gearset for mine, but someone I know had an unused BGH 'E8' box (the top spec one) gathering dust 
-
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
^^ the advantage of the BGH kit is that for a few ££ extra you can significantly boost the strength of the box too
I was going to use a HD long 1st gearset for mine, but someone I know had an unused BGH 'E8' box (the top spec one) gathering dust
keeping my eye on 1 of those, but until 1 appears i just want the longer 1st gear, as it is beyond useless ATM
|
|
|
Soot1e
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 04:16 PM |
|
|
Type 9
If you buy the Capri 2.8 box the chances are the input shaftwill be too long, it can be shortened very carefully with a grinder. BGH and First
Motion can supply the gear kits you need plus any other parts to rebuild.
Bernie
|
|
|
beaver34
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
bottom of this page
http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage3.html
|
|
|
Xtreme Kermit
|
| posted on 23/8/12 at 08:59 PM |
|
|
Just got a long first box in mine. It makes a big difference. Well worthwhile.
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 07:12 AM |
|
|
Out of interest, what ratios do you have now? also what diff?
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 11:55 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Out of interest, what ratios do you have now? also what diff?
standard 2.0 type 9 with 3.92 LSD diff
Engine is ST170 on TB's
first gear is useless and if you rev it right out in 1st you can't select 2nd quick enough, if you short shift though its fine
|
|
|
Soot1e
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 11:59 AM |
|
|
Before I changed to a long BGH 1st. Type 9 i didn't bother with 1st gear, always started in 2nd. gear.
Bernie
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 12:24 PM |
|
|
the info I have is this, anyone who knows more/better please feel free to correct me:
standard ratios are
(1st to 5th)
3.36 1.81 1.26 1 0.82
some qoute even higher ratio lower gears
3.65 1.97 1.37 1 0.82
ALl the BGH ones seem to have a less than 3 1st, meaning this would make it worse
Ie
2.98 1.97 1.37 1 0.82
Running the first set of standard figures on 195 50 15s and 3.92 diff at 7k the standard ratios give (theortically) MPH
34 64 92 115 141
but the road BGH kit would give
39 59 84 115 141
if you can get the 2nd set of standard ratios its even better:
32 59 84 115 141
So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar, and you may as well go straight to 3rd?) it would seem
if you want a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd so you can acctually use you want a SHORTER 1st? and then maybe a lower diff ratio to equal it out?
[Edited on 24-8-12 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 12:56 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,
You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a
big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.
|
|
|
GeoffT
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 01:13 PM |
|
|
Loggyboy, the problem is that you're reading a higher number as a higher gear ratio, rather than lower.
Remember that when you quote a ratio as 3.36:1 the first number (3.36) is the input speed, the second number (1) is the output speed, so the lower the
first number is, then the relatively higher the second number (i.e. the output speed) becomes....
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 01:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,
You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a
big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 03:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,
You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a
big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
because short shifting at 4000-4500rpm from 1st to 2nd actually allowing me to do a faster standing start than trying to rev it out in 1st then
changing to 2nd as its a longer gear
most time i just use 1st to get the car rolling and then change to 2nd and then floor it
[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 03:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
silky16v, I'm not quite sure what you achive by missing out
second either..... ?
it sounds like your tring to hold onto first for too long when you should be in 2nd
but maybe you should forget 1st gear all together and start in second
(untill you get the ratio's sorted that is )
I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for
cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it
though...)
[Edited on 24/8/2012 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 03:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
silky16v, I'm not quite sure what you achive by missing out
second either..... ?
it sounds like your tring to hold onto first as long as possible, but maybe you should forget 1st gear all together and start in second (untill you
get the ratio's sorted that is)
I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for
cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it
though...)
i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to
go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.
maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that
given gear selected
i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter
[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
Im even more confused!! lol
So if you change at 6-7k in first, where does that put you in 2nd? (revs wise)
[Edited on 24-8-12 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
Soot1e
|
| posted on 24/8/12 at 04:13 PM |
|
|
[
I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for
cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it
though...)
i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to
go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.
maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that
given gear selected
i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter
[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]
Well i understand what you meant, basically 1 st. IS useless. You do need a longer 1st. between 2.4 and 2.9 and also close ratios on the other
gears, assuming you use it on road and track.
Bernie
|
|
|
silky16v
|
| posted on 26/8/12 at 12:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Soot1e
[
I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for
cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it
though...)
i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to
go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.
maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that
given gear selected
i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter
[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]
Well i understand what you meant, basically 1 st. IS useless. You do need a longer 1st. between 2.4 and 2.9 and also close ratios on the other
gears, assuming you use it on road and track.
Yeah need the longer 1st, I use it mainly on road but hopefully some track time next year
|
|
|
Xtreme Kermit
|
| posted on 27/8/12 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
you can see the effect here, courtesy of this excel sheet.
http://westfield-world.com/Gear_ratio_shifts.xls
This is a standard type 9. You can see the drop off in revs from 1st to 2nd.
 
Type 9 std ratios
This is a long first set up. You can see the revs drop nowhere near as far, and the engine will remain 'on the cam'
 
Type 9 long 1st
|
|
|
