Surrey Dave
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 11:50 AM |
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Vauxhall BHP's
One for - Ned,
What are the BHP/ Torque outputs from the standard Vauxhall 16v engines.
What's special about the 'Red Top'?
Does the Cat rules apply to an engine post 95?
Can you install with standard electrics and injection?
Anyone got any photo's?
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garage19
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 11:55 AM |
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Not ned but:
Pre cat 155 bhp
With cat 150 bhp.
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ned
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 12:06 PM |
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all redtops can be run without cat's, the after '95 engines are the ecotec which is only 138bhp. the 'redtop' xe is 155bhp i
standard trim, i think the plenum and standard injecitno is probably too high for a standard 7. with twin 40's and an ignition only ecu (or 8v
dizzy) they can make 180bhp.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 12:08 PM |
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anyone know about my gm 2.0 d-tec engine?
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ned
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 12:10 PM |
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what age/model/engine code is it liam? is it belt or chain driven? is it steel or ally block. the gm unit was the ecotec, an xe with a poor head for
emissions and they've recently gone to an ally block chain driven unit.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 04:57 PM |
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ned
the engine is from a r reg daewoo nubira
is not alloy block, is belt driven
is it an XE with a crap head?
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david walker
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 06:36 PM |
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D-Tec Daewoo is an Ecotec and identical in every way to its Vectra cousins engine apart from the badge on the Rocker Cover.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Viper
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 08:05 PM |
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Ned
180bhp on 40's? i wouldn't have thought they would flow enough, i would have said 45's min.
Tim
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 16/9/04 at 10:17 PM |
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i thought it was a vectra engine, but is it any good? is it an xe with a crap head??
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Stu16v
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| posted on 17/9/04 at 10:17 PM |
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The 2.0 8valve, the XE, the Ecotec/Daewoo, all share the same bottom end (more or less). The late XE head *may* bolt straight onto the Ecotec motor
and run without further mods, I dont honestly know.
Is it a good engine? It is comparable to the Zetec, power wise. There is tuning bits out there for them too, you just have to search that bit
harder.
Just change the plastic cambelt pulleies (or better still, upgrade to metal ones), and you have got a good motor.
Just not quite as good as an XE...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 17/9/04 at 11:32 PM |
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so if i flowed the head, throttle boddies and emerald or megasquirt management it would make tidy power right
[Edited on 17/9/04 by liam.mccaffrey]
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ned
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 08:47 AM |
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throw the ecotec head away, change nylon pressure valve in the block and drop an xe head on it.  then throttle bodies and other bit's n
pieces and it'll go very nicely
Tim, we ran an xe race engine (old spec, couple of years ago), standard internals, freshly built with just a light flywheel and vernier pulleys on a
dry sump, the rest of the engine was totally standard, running on dellorto twin 40's it made 187bhp on dyno..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 04:41 PM |
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so the xe head will go straight on then ned?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 07:39 PM |
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as far as XE power goes, my current engine in my grasser made 176hp @ wheels @6500rpm (approx 205hp @flywheel) on John Wilcox Rolling Road in
Hinckley.
It is a C20XE, is internally standard apart from ARP rod-bolts and came from a crashed low mileage 1991 Cavalier GSI 16v (in 1996 so engine not that
old when I got it) It is fitted with Jenvey 48mm parallel throttle body injection, with the bodies mounted on a s/h astra rally kitcar manifold and
the injection is controlled by MBE 956E ecu.
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david walker
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 09:31 PM |
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Just for the record, the XE bottom end differs from the Ecotec in the following areas:
Pistons, Conrods, Crankshaft, Oil Pump, Block (in the oil pressure restrictor area), Flywheel, Sump, and all belt pulleys as well as the belt.
The Ecotec has much more in common with the old 8 valve SE/SEH engine in that block, crank, rods, oil pump and a few other bits are identical.
Do not put an XE head onto the Ecotec bottom end. Buy an XE engine or stick with your Daewoo! Remember most of the people on here haven't driven
a 150hp Se7en hard anyway - if they had they would crap themselves.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Viper
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 09:34 PM |
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ouch
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 10:49 PM |
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ditto ouch, i'll stick with me daewoo then
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ned
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 08:45 AM |
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David,
I've still heard of xe heads going on ecotecbottom ends before now. I imagine the difference in the internals is due to the different
compression ratios of the respective engines? ie different pistons with different deck height/crown. I know the early xe's would be different
inside, mahle pistons, lighter crank etc, but the later xe's shared the crank and square toothed pulley gear etc, so some are 'more
similar' than others perhaps..
The nylon pressure relief valve can be changed, the sump would have to be chopped anyway or changed unless fitted transverse (like liam). the ony
difference with the crank is the number of bolts that holds the flywheel on. I still maintain it is a possible conversion, but grant you it would be a
lot simpler and safer to just swap the engine for an xe as the engine mounts should be the same.
Ned.
[Edited on 21/9/04 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Protrim
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| posted on 1/10/04 at 11:45 PM |
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quote:
I've still heard of xe heads going on ecotecbottom ends before now.
That's correct. The ecotecbottom is slightly better and
we use this on our 500hp+ turbo applications.
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david walker
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| posted on 2/10/04 at 08:07 AM |
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How is it better? The crank certainly isn't stronger (weaker near No1 main, much smaller front pulley location diameter, smaller cross section
through webs and only six bolt flywheel) and the block casting is identical. The rods are smaller in section and gudgeon pin is press fit as against
fully floating as in XE. Pistons are incomparable - particularly if you need to machine valve cut outs in the crown!
Have you had more premature failures with the XE bottom end than you have with Ecotec bottom? How have those failures manifested themselves? Are you
using a std Ecotec bottom end and just winding the boost up and tolerating short life?
I am genuinely interested to hear of your experiences, I build competition engines for a job (including lots of XE's) and always like to learn
more.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Protrim
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| posted on 2/10/04 at 08:50 PM |
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We use only the bloc itself. Cranks we use are from XE or LET, Crower rods and Arias pistons. The Ecotec-bloc itself is supposed to be a little bit
stronger than the XE and LET blocs so it can handle more pressures. We had a LET with 434bhp on the wheels in an Omega A (Carlton) and this had no
problems. So I guess it's no real advantage to use the ecotecbloc, but if we can get it we use it.
I've seen you build almost only naturally aspirated engines in UK, but in Norway we build mostly turbocharged. With higher cylinder pressures
the bloc need to handle it.
I've a Swindon crank in my own LET, and that's the worst thing that can happen to any XE builder I guess Nothing was like standard on
this crank and everything needed to be custom made.
Now I'm moving the LET engine as an naturally aspirated XE of about 250bhp (or more) into my Locost and I'll build a 2.2 Ecotec alloy
engine with turbo in my Cavalier 4x4.
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david walker
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| posted on 3/10/04 at 08:06 AM |
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Thanks, sounds really mouth watering stuff you are doing over there! You answered my question in the first paragraph, in as much as you are junking
all the Ecotec stuff other than the block.
Keep us posted on progress with the alloy block 2.2. Are you using the QED block? I have heard (only secondhand though) of problems with these blocks.
Have you looked at the taller 2.2 iron Ecotec block?
Thanks,
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Protrim
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| posted on 3/10/04 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
You answered my question in the first paragraph, in as much as you are junking all the Ecotec stuff other than the block.
The rods
handles about 350hp in a LET. The first modifications we use internal is changing rods, Z20LET head gasket and ARP head studs. Then the bloc is
already much stronger. Original LET pistons handles at least 410hp, more haven't we tried them to, but plan to build a engine with 480hp on
original pistons to check their capability.
quote:
Keep us posted on progress with the alloy block 2.2. Are you using the QED block? I have heard (only secondhand though) of problems with these
blocks.
No, we don't use the QED alloy bloc. We find it too expensive only to save some weight. The 2.2 I've bought is from the
Astra Coupé. Z22SE is the engine code. This has alloy bloc and head. Strong internals (rods and pistons) are cheap available from the US since this is
also an US engine. If you e-mail me (post@protrim.no) I'll keep you updated on my turbo project.
quote:
Have you looked at the taller 2.2 iron Ecotec block?
No. This on we haven't tried out. In fact I've never seen one. I guess
this is the engine in the Sintra and Omega? Or did the Omega also have alloy bloc?
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ned
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| posted on 12/10/04 at 09:27 AM |
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Protrim,
depending on engine regs for next year we contemplated utilising the 2.2 alloy block from the new astra/vectra engine, but as I understand it, it is a
chain driven unit, is there a kit available to change it to belt driven or have you had the bits made up specially?
thanks,
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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