BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 07:25 PM |
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Turbocharged X flow - results
Hello!
Just finished mapping a turbocharged 1300cc HC X flow in a mk1 escort.
Maybe of interest to the folks who are running X flows in there cars, the conversion was not done by us, it was done by the customer using mostly
scrapyard bits.
The engine is a totally stock 1300cc HC from around 1974.
Vectra 1.7L diesel turbocharger mounted on cut and welded stock cast X flow manifold
front mounted intercooler (not sure what car that was off)
homemade exhaust downpipe connected to Escort system
Saab dump valve
Jenvey single throttle body mounted on stock 1300cc X flow carb inlet manifold
single 750cc/min injector
Bosch fuel pump
weber alpha FPR
Ford coilpack (dizzy removed)
36-1 trigger wheel
megasquirt MS3
The car made 110BHP at 5800RPM and 121lb/ft at 3300RPM at 8PSI of boost on 95RON, this is more than a good 2.0L pinto!!
It would make over 140BHP with more boost (12PSI), but we tuned it for MPG and to use 95RON fuel.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 07:58 PM |
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It used to amaze me how much effort used to go into getting bigger power outputs from 1172cc side valve Fords, same applies these days you can go
into any scrap yard and buy a 14 year old 1.4 litre that gives 102bhp out of the box which might have less peak torque but it has no turbo
lag.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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steve m
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:01 PM |
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Im interested!
please post pics, of the setup
Steve (1700 crossflow)
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snapper
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:04 PM |
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Impressive results from a 1.3 with scrapyard parts
Looking forward to the new Ford Ecotechs
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
It used to amaze me how much effort used to go into getting bigger power outputs from 1172cc side valve Fords, same applies these days you can go
into any scrap yard and buy a 14 year old 1.4 litre that gives 102bhp out of the box which might have less peak torque but it has no turbo
lag.
True, but this X flow had full boost at 1300RPM, are you thinking of the fiesta/KA 16v 1.4L zetec? This will not bolt directly to the escort
'box, and has a peaky torque curve, so you end up revving it everywhere to make it go.
The torque curve on the this X flow was quite flat from 2000RPM to 5000RPM, it made 75BHP at 3500RPM
At 12PSI the little X flow will be quicker in the Escort than a tuned Pinto, and handle better, at 1bar it will be quicker than a stock 2.0L zetec. We
didnt want to push our luck with boost, but these engines are pretty tuff so i would say 1bar it would be fine. I think the turbo would start to be
the limiting factor after 1bar as its too small really, but would be a shame to fit a bigger one as this may cause the dreaded throttle lag!
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:20 PM |
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What size was the Jenvey TB? Or is that a stupid question in view of the fact it is on a standard manifold?
Or was the manifold opened up somewhat?
Very interesting post, thanks.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Im interested!
please post pics, of the setup
Steve (1700 crossflow)
Hi steve,
I do have some nice pics, and some impressive power printouts from our dyno but will need to ask permission to post them as its not my car, we only
mapped it for the owner. (and advised along the build process)
The little 1300 ran spot on, very nice idle, good power for low boost (these engine made around 75BHP stock!) it does make me wonder what a well built
1600/1700 would do with a decent turbo. My engine builder has always been a fan of the X flow, he has built close on 200BHP 9500RPM big bore steel X
flows in his time, lets not forget the Ford RS200 engine was a 711M block!! (800BHP!!)
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
It used to amaze me how much effort used to go into getting bigger power outputs from 1172cc side valve Fords, same applies these days you can go
into any scrap yard and buy a 14 year old 1.4 litre that gives 102bhp out of the box which might have less peak torque but it has no turbo
lag.
Because I have two 1300 X-Flow engines and no Zetecs.
Also like me, they are old and simple. 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Staple balls
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:25 PM |
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If only I had some cash. 
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
What size was the Jenvey TB? Or is that a stupid question in view of the fact it is on a standard manifold?
Or was the manifold opened up somewhat?
Very interesting post, thanks.
Hi, thanks for your interest!
The inlet manifold was stock single carb version, just cleaned up with the grinder, not opened. Water heating retained.
A single 45mm jenvey (single throttle plate) with a single 750cc injector fitted.
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Impressive results from a 1.3 with scrapyard parts
Looking forward to the new Ford Ecotechs
of course, you know what would be good, a turbo pinto!! 500BHP possible!!
lets go old skool!
Essex 3.0L next after the pinto?
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steve m
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:42 PM |
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"of course, you know what would be good, a turbo pinto!! 500BHP possible!! "
but you would need a chassis, built like the titanic to hold it
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
"of course, you know what would be good, a turbo pinto!! 500BHP possible!! "
but you would need a chassis, built like the titanic to hold it
......so you don't fancy a nice light weight Essex V6 then??
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steve m
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:49 PM |
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Err
no a turbo 1700 xflow would hit the spot
Steve
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 08:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
What size was the Jenvey TB? Or is that a stupid question in view of the fact it is on a standard manifold?
Or was the manifold opened up somewhat?
Very interesting post, thanks.
Hi, thanks for your interest!
The inlet manifold was stock single carb version, just cleaned up with the grinder, not opened. Water heating retained.
A single 45mm jenvey (single throttle plate) with a single 750cc injector fitted.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated, cheers.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 09:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Err
no a turbo 1700 xflow would hit the spot
Steve
Humm,
i would say a 1700 X flow (assuming forged pistons, good head and race cam), with decent inlet system (jenveys with jenvey turbo plenum), big
intercooler, megasquirt 2 engine management, 625cc injectors, garret T34 360 0.63 running 20-24PSI of boost will make at least 300BHP, 280lb/ft and
pull 8500RPM.
Hows that? ;-)
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 1/12/12 at 09:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
What size was the Jenvey TB? Or is that a stupid question in view of the fact it is on a standard manifold?
Or was the manifold opened up somewhat?
Very interesting post, thanks.
Hi, thanks for your interest!
The inlet manifold was stock single carb version, just cleaned up with the grinder, not opened. Water heating retained.
A single 45mm jenvey (single throttle plate) with a single 750cc injector fitted.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated, cheers.
No problem, good luck with your project.
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gazza285
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 12:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
Lets not forget the Ford RS200 engine was a 711M block!! (800BHP!!)
Lets not let fact get in the way of a good tale either. The BDT had an aluminium block with nikasil liners. Based on the 711, yes, only in bore
spacing and bearing sizes. Identical? Not even near.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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MikeR
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 01:27 AM |
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I thought diesel turbos where supposed to be a bad idea on petrol engines - something to do with the exhaust gass temperature. Petrol is a lot higher
and destroys them or something. Am i wrong?
Very interested in this as I've been wondering about supercharging a xflow recently.
What did the bloke do to reduce the compression in the engine?
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 09:15 AM |
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Bought a 2 litre Zetec from scrappy, £150. Bolted strait to standard Ford bellhousing. Fitting bits cost me, don't they always but still using
them 10 years later. Used 45's from old engine with a Weber Alpha ECU and it made 160 corrected bhp. Later put in a pair of Kent FZ2002 cams,
made 178 corrected bhp.
The torque was there from tickover with the standard engine, you needed at least 3000 rpm on the clock with the FZ2002's before it really got
going, in reality I preferred the standard engine on the road, run a standard engine now.
Makes 110 bhp form a turbo x-flow with all the work and potential unreliability look like a total waste of time and effort.
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steve m
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 09:22 AM |
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Yours is a 2.0 zetec
110bhp is form a 1300 standard engine
thats "why"
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Oddified
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 09:35 AM |
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For me part of the reason for playing with a fun car, is the tinkering and playing about with ideas which to me is all part of the fun
There maybe a few reasons not to turbo a 1.3 xflow, but why not if it puts a smile on his face, good on him and respect
Ian
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Craigorypeck
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 11:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
For me part of the reason for playing with a fun car, is the tinkering and playing about with ideas which to me is all part of the fun
There maybe a few reasons not to turbo a 1.3 xflow, but why not if it puts a smile on his face, good on him and respect
Ian
I completely agree... people laughed at me too..
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 11:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
Lets not forget the Ford RS200 engine was a 711M block!! (800BHP!!)
Lets not let fact get in the way of a good tale either. The BDT had an aluminium block with nikasil liners. Based on the 711, yes, only in bore
spacing and bearing sizes. Identical? Not even near.
You are correct, the BDT was an aluminium block, and was i direct copy of the 711. This was done to make the engine lighter not stronger, i would
expect the BDT block is not as strong as an iron 711......
For example, we are in the process of building a 1000BHP cosworth YB, and liked the idea of using a nice light ally block, we had already been in
contact with Cosworth in Northhampton and the guy there was very interested in our project - he offered us a discount on there recently developed tall
ally YB block.
So, my engine builder and me traveled down to cosworth to have a look at the block - we had a great day looking at all the fancy F1 stuff as well as
looking at the block. After an hour of so of looking at this nice shiny £5K block my engine builder said it would not be strong enough for what we
need, when we quizzed the cosworth guy he stated that it was not as strong as a 200 iron block....
The same will apply to the ally 711(BDT) - assuming a direct copy an iron block will always be stronger than an ally block.
Nikasil liners are not installed in an engine to make it stronger, they are only used to make it last longer and are common in very high power engines
due to increased bore side loads on small capacity forced induction engines.
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 2/12/12 at 12:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Bought a 2 litre Zetec from scrappy, £150. Bolted strait to standard Ford bellhousing. Fitting bits cost me, don't they always but still using
them 10 years later. Used 45's from old engine with a Weber Alpha ECU and it made 160 corrected bhp. Later put in a pair of Kent FZ2002 cams,
made 178 corrected bhp.
The torque was there from tickover with the standard engine, you needed at least 3000 rpm on the clock with the FZ2002's before it really got
going, in reality I preferred the standard engine on the road, run a standard engine now.
Makes 110 bhp form a turbo x-flow with all the work and potential unreliability look like a total waste of time and effort.
The 1.6L/1.8L/2.0L zetec (iron block) shares the same bolt pattern with a X flow/pinto.
The later zetecs (1.2L/1.4L) are not the same
A totally stock 2.0L zetec will make 175BHP, with cams 190BHP.
If you only made 178BHP with cams you tuned it wrong - FZ2002 cams are not that wild, so with proper tuning it will drive very near to a stock
engine.
The key to it is proper tuning - you have an expensive ignition box with carbs, you would have been better using EFI with a cheap ECU such as
megasquirt. Carbs are a waste of time, but if you must use carbs Dellortos are better for drivablity.
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