RichardSIA
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| posted on 19/11/13 at 11:24 AM |
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Alfa Romeo 2000 to Type 9, been done?
I've lots of projects, many are interrelated.
One is the fitting of a Type 9 box to my Alfa Romeo 2000 engine going into a Marcos 1600 GT.
Originally intended to use the Alfa box but it's a bit too large to go in without modifying the wood monocoque chassis.
Anyone else ever done an Alfa/T9 conversion or am I the first?
Still working on the CAD for it.
I've got a good start and so far it looks entirely possible.
I have also set the Alfa bell in place for a quick visual check.
I know many would say just put a Ford TC in, not really practical here as the TC parts are silly-expensive even if a lower were available.
The Alfa is all alloy and I got the low miles rebuilt engine with Webers very inexpensively.
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 19/11/13 at 05:07 PM |
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Fiat 131/132/ Argenta gearbox might do it.
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jacko
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| posted on 19/11/13 at 06:16 PM |
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http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=119209
This may help you with a few names to get in touch with and info
Jacko
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 19/11/13 at 07:54 PM |
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T9 to Alfa 2000
quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Fiat 131/132/ Argenta gearbox might do it.
I have a feeling those may be even harder to find here than the T9 box.
No new Fiats in the U.S. for many years.
Just recently began to get the new "500".
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 08:40 AM |
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Progress of a sort.
Found some more information on my Merkur T9.
Seems to be the V6 type but with a slightly shorter input shaft.
Since the Merkur was a turbo rated at 175 hp that makes sense.
Definitely NOT from a diesel, I counted the gear teeth to be sure.
With the adapter using up a bit of shaft length it looks like I will need the longer input shaft.
And it is the layshaft end plate that is fouling one of the Alfa attachment holes.
Wondering if I may be able to cut a scallop in it?
Rumor from another site has it that this conversion HAS been done before.
Tried the search function again but had very little result.
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardSIA
Found some more information on my Merkur T9.
Seems to be the V6 type but with a slightly shorter input shaft.
Since the Merkur was a turbo rated at 175 hp that makes sense.
Definitely NOT from a diesel, I counted the gear teeth to be sure.
With the adapter using up a bit of shaft length it looks like I will need the longer input shaft.
the pinto (and all hte other 4 pot's) used a short input shaft, the V6 and diesel ones use the long input shafts
the Merkur used you Lima engine thats more or less a big version of the pinto engine we get over this side, so I'm guessing its the same length
shaft as the ones used on our pintos - but here's a drawing of the one we get so you can check:
in that case you could rebuild the box with a long input shaft (some gear kits come with the option of either shaft length) and you may be able to get
some better ratios at the same time 
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 09:26 AM |
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Seems the Merkur got an intermediate shaft length.
Merkur input = 194mm = 7.625
Above seems to agree with my measurement.
Trying to determine if the stock gears (V6 type first) will be suitable or do I really need to change them.
Marcos is pretty light, Alfa engine at about 130 hp.
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 10:08 AM |
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have you looked at the borg warner T5 boxes ?
I know you get quite a few versions of them on your side of the water, we really only get the sierra cossie version over here (same block as a 2.0
pinto, but with a bigger flywheel)
not sure how similar your engine is to the later V6's, most folk over here seem to have used the 3.0 / 3.2 V6's
a lot of these convesions fit the alfa bellhousing with an adapter at the gearbox end....
here's one:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=83952
Owelly on this site is probably your man to ask - he's used a couple of alfa V6's (among others) on type 9 boxes and was considering the
2.0 twincam at one point - see some of his old projects here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=145416
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=151752
and this might be worth a look (the 'before' section):
http://www.alfadax.com/
he's used a S2000 box on his V6 (also on this site as 'The Black Flash' )
if it comes down to it their is always this method:
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=161916
[Edited on 26/11/2013 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 26/11/2013 by mcerd1]
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 11:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
have you looked at the borg warner T5 boxes ?
I know you get quite a few versions of them on your side of the water, we really only get the sierra cossie version over here
Some TVR's were fitted with T5's and had different ratios to the T5 used in the Sierra Cosworth.
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 06:06 PM |
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I am using the 4 cylinder Alfa engine & adapter
I am using the 4 cylinder Alfa 2000 engine from a Spider and an adapter between the Spider bell housing and the T9.
Essentially an alloy block Alfa TC conversion rather than the slow cast iron cross-flow Ford 1600 lump.
A T5 is too large for my transmission tunnel.
Original trans would have been a Ford "E" type four speed.
The Marcos transmission tunnel is a structural part of the wood chassis so cutting it is not an option.
Latest wrinkle is that I may need to tilt my engine a few degrees for the webers to clear the chassis.
Time to do some mocking-up before I get much further.
This link is very much what I am trying to do, just four cylinder.
quote:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=83952
.JPG)
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 07:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Fiat 131/132/ Argenta gearbox might do it.
Even back in the 1960s the 5 speed boxes in Alfas were bought from Fiat
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 09:31 PM |
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Original box could not have been a Type E , Marcos switched to to steel chassis in 1969 a year before Ford started fitting the type E.
The original gearbox could have been a Cortina GT MK1 or MK2 semi close ratio box.
[Edited on 26/11/13 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 26/11/13 at 09:51 PM |
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When I got my Marcos it had a Mazzzzzda in it.
When I got my Marcos it had a Mazzzzzda in it.
Worst engine swap EVER!
It sat so far forward the car was no longer mid-engine. 
The transmission was incredibly long, it seems they set everything else up according to the gear linkage location.
So I've never seen any portion of the original Ford drive-train.
The rotary went to the tip, and good riddance to it.
What I am trying to do should result in almost an An Alfa GTZ regards performance. 
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 20/12/13 at 01:07 AM |
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Found a nice big block of aluminum in my material bin.
In fact it's probably a bit too big.
Might be able to get is sawn in half and make two.
Or have material for a second if I ruin the first.
Two things I need to figure out before I continue.
1. Correct thickness of the adapter considering input shaft length.
2. Correct orientation of the engine.
I notice the engine in the Spider does not sit dead level.
I have to figure out where the angle comes from and what, if any, effect on the bolt pattern compared to what I have drawn.
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 22/12/13 at 02:00 AM |
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Alfa - T9 adapter.
Pic of my geometry so far.
I would like to refine the Alfa side to match the bell a little closer but I am not expert at drawing non-symmetrical arcs.
Yellow profile and green "Points" are Ford.
Red are Alfa.
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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RichardSIA
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| posted on 22/12/13 at 05:26 AM |
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Ah, more information needed.
I took measurements and drew the Alfa and Ford input shafts as an overlay for comparison.
Ford/Merkur is .400" longer but the splines for the driven disc are also further forward by .750".
I now realize I need to know the distance from the rear face of the 2.3 Turbo Ford block to the end of the crankshaft.
I have an Alfa engine so will get that measurement myself.
Need to sort this all out to know how thick the adapter needs to be.
Shorter is better to keep the engine as far back as possible.
Might be able to use one of the other input shafts if I have to but I'm thinking this one should be good. 
At these fuel prices I want it leaded, five-star, and my windscreen cleaned!
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