richardm6994
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 01:42 PM |
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working tax credit rant
I've just been helping a friend work out how much money extra they'd take home each month if they increased their hours at work.
This has all been worked out accuratley to the penny but basically without giving too much of their financial details away;
They currently work 22.5hrs per weeks (they don't earn enough to be taxed on salary)
add onto their income the Working Tax Credits
then deduct the child care for the month
= £1080.40 per month at the moment
increase the hours to 32.5hrs per week;
because of the increased hours, they are now taxed on part of their salary,
Working Tax Credits will be be reduced inline with the extra income due to the increased hours at work.
child care costs will increase to cover the extra hours while at work
This now equals £1080.82
So because of the tax system and working tax credits, an extra 10 hours at work each week gets them an extra 42p at the end of each month...worth
it????
[Edited on 25/3/14 by richardm6994]
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40inches
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 01:51 PM |
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If you have used the on line calculator, forget it, it's pointless.
The only way to find out is to submit the forms.
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richardm6994
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 01:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
If you have used the on line calculator, forget it, it's pointless.
The only way to find out is to submit the forms.
online calculator to find out how much tax on their new salary.
tax credits been done by contacting hmrc.
Child care is an easy one to work out as it is a fixed hourly rate for the length of time the child is in care.
So in a nutshell, those figures are accurate.
[Edited on 25/3/14 by richardm6994]
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Irony
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 02:23 PM |
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Its the same for a lot of people. I am in the similar position with my girlfriend and our little nipper. The guy who sits next to me is suffering as
well. His girlfriend has been told at work that they are removing her part time position and making a full time position available. So in reality
they are saying 'go full time or leave'. After nursery fees for their child and benefit losses they are worse off by £50 a month.
We're not talking minimum wage either - she's a legal secretary, a good job/career.
I think its a poor state of affairs when 'not working' is a financially better alternative to 'working'.
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richardm6994
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 02:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I think its a poor state of affairs when 'not working' is a financially better alternative to 'working'.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head with that statement
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craig1410
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 03:59 PM |
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Sadly it's going to take more than one parliament to unravel the damage done by over a decade of Labour government. This is just one of the many
symptoms. At least the economy looks to be back on its feet so hopefully stuff like this can begin to receive more attention and funding in the coming
years.
Personally if I was in that situation I would prefer to be working those extra hours and accumulate the experience and skills needed to progress to a
better job or higher grade. If I was an employer, I would be very impressed to hear from someone who had such a strong work ethic that they were
prepared to work hard for little gain just to get on in life.
Rewards don't have to be monetary to be beneficial. I firmly believe that those who try will be rewarded.
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:24 PM |
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Alternatively you could invest in your children by spending time with them.
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BenB
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:11 PM |
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Or we could just rely on people to not unnecessarily rip off the state. The system is broken but so is people's attitude. For sure it might be
cost neutral to work but what about being a contributing member of society? Does that not have any benefit- self-esteem? I see people with true
disabilities and needing serious help being refused on the grounds of cost and yet people who chose not to work on the grounds that it doesn't
pay enough or the offered job is "beneath them" get paid to do nothing. Doesn't work in my mind. I flipped burgers for minimum wage
in my uni holidays so I didn't have to sponge off the state, can't see why everyone else can't think of society rather than
themselves.... Perhaps I'm naive. I agree the system is broken, in my book if someone is offered a job and they turn it down they're not
unemployed they're choosing not to work. Perhaps I'm biased but I've seen disabled people sit in their own poo for hours because
social services can't afford a carer to visit for more than ten minutes twice a day whilst people who chose not to work get given £1500 per
month to live in one of the most expensive areas of London so they can sit watching tv. Makes me proper pissed. Give the money to the person who needs
it and tells the scroungers to get a fricking job. IF they can't be bothered to contribute to society I don't see why society should
support them. Quid quo pro.
So what's broken? The system? People's "me me me" attitude or both?
The system is so stupid it's unreal. One of my patients proudly told me how he applies for the most unsuitable jobs possible as he knows they
won't interview him so he can go and give the sob story of "no suitable jobs" so he can stay on benefits. WTF.
Anyway, rant over. Been one of those days  Spent most of my time dealing with people in extremis who need help they can't access and the rest
of the time trying to persuade the slackers that perhaps their bunion doesn't stop them from working for 18 months despite how painful it might
be... FFS.
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nick205
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Sadly it's going to take more than one parliament to unravel the damage done by over a decade of Labour government. This is just one of the many
symptoms. At least the economy looks to be back on its feet so hopefully stuff like this can begin to receive more attention and funding in the coming
years.
Personally if I was in that situation I would prefer to be working those extra hours and accumulate the experience and skills needed to progress to a
better job or higher grade. If I was an employer, I would be very impressed to hear from someone who had such a strong work ethic that they were
prepared to work hard for little gain just to get on in life.
Rewards don't have to be monetary to be beneficial. I firmly believe that those who try will be rewarded.
I'd agree with that sentiment in general. Having moved into a role in the past couple of years of employing and managing people it's a
very different perspective trying to get the best from people to get a business to function at it's best.
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nick205
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 09:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Alternatively you could invest in your children by spending time with them.
I'd also agree with this, now having less time to spend with my kids during the week. It makes you try a lot harder as the weekends with them.
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craig1410
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 11:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Alternatively you could invest in your children by spending time with them.
I couldn't agree more Mike. We have 3 kids and had our first at the age of 21 when I was still at university and my wife was studying to become
a nurse. We've never had an excess of money (to say the least) but managed to put our kids first at all times. My wife stayed at home to give
the kids the best start while working part time in the evenings (supermarkets mainly) and studying to get her degree at open university. We were
managing to support a family of 3 on about £10k a year while I was on a sandwich year working at IBM before going back to uni for my final year. We
both worked during the holidays usually doing bar or restaurant work etc. We were always just on the wrong side of any entitlement to benefits
although never really tried hard to get them.
The point of all this is that we managed to raise a family without benefits on a modest household income. An important part of that was my wife
staying home, saving us a fortune on child care and most importantly raising the kids the way we wanted them raised. My Mum and Dad worked hard their
whole lives and so have my wife and I. Even our eldest two kids are qualified life guards and swimming teachers and work regularly to help fund things
like driving lessons and other luxuries.
Since then we have continued to prioritise the kids and are lucky to have our eldest at uni studying to be a doctor and having just been accepted for
an RAF medical officer cadetship. Our younger daughter is studying radio therapy and oncology at uni and our son is on course for good grades at
school and is also keen to join the RAF. Sport has been a big part of their lives as they all swam competitively with the local swim team and have all
been enthusiastic members of the local air cadets. This sort of team sport and military style discipline is really good for them and they get nice
rewards such as flights in gliders and powered aircraft and trips to RAF bases. My eldest even went with the RAF to the falkland islands last summer
and my son is going to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus this summer. None of these activities are expensive and are incredible value for money and can lead to
careers. Highly recommended.
Anyway, whilst I recognise that we've had our share of good luck and good health and owe a lot to the upbringing we received from our parents, I
believe the time we invested in our kids is by far the most important investment we will ever make and the work ethic we have passed on to them should
serve them well in the future.
"Your children will become who you are, so be who you want them to be" - Source Unknown
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indykid
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 07:19 AM |
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I don't personally have children, so don't have a fantastic handle on the exact costs, but it's seemed to me from conversations
I've been involved in lately that the cost of childcare is the biggest injustice in all this.
It seems akin to a licence to print money. I can understand that you'd want a nursery to be well funded, but I fail to see how the hourly rates
equate to the care provided. It seems to me it's whatever the government provides, plus a bit/lot.
Rather than getting the government to hand out more money to cover the costs, should the costs not be reviewed?
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ali f27
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 07:23 AM |
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Economy back on its feet where at i will move there 
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 09:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Economy back on its feet where at i will move there
^^^^book me a place, too!
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davidimurray
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 10:45 AM |
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Don't get me started on the 'system' - personally I am of the opinion work or suffer the consequences. Appreciate that there are
people who cannot work and that is what the system is there for but those who choose not to then they should be made to work or get nothing. If I walk
around my local town there is plenty of litter to collect, parks to keep tidy, railings to paint, dog muck to collect, old people to help, charities
etc make them do this sort of work 3 days a week - still have 4 days a week to 'job hunt'. If they refuse - no money.
I've worked since I was 15 continuously and done everything from bar work, labouring, painting through to my engineering job now. Meanwhile for
working harder what do i get - pay more tax, more NI have to work for longer before I get pension. A road system that is falling to tatters and an NHS
where I watched my critically ill father die in a cleaners cupboard because there were no beds. The incentives to work in this country seem to be
vanishing while at the same time the benefits of not working seem to be increasing.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 10:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by indykid
I don't personally have children, so don't have a fantastic handle on the exact costs, but it's seemed to me from conversations
I've been involved in lately that the cost of childcare is the biggest injustice in all this.
It seems akin to a licence to print money. I can understand that you'd want a nursery to be well funded, but I fail to see how the hourly rates
equate to the care provided. It seems to me it's whatever the government provides, plus a bit/lot.
Rather than getting the government to hand out more money to cover the costs, should the costs not be reviewed?
Sadly this isn't the case.
I bothered to work it out once because it was costing us a fortune.
Legally there need to be lots of staff
one adult to three children aged two and younger
one adult to four children aged between two and three
one adult to eight children aged between three and five
Then there is management, staff holiday, sick leave and building costs (purchase/rent). Nurseries aren't like schools as you can drop off early
(8am) and pick up pretty late (6pm) and they are open nearly all of the year.
The staff earn stuff all, and the companies don't make big profits.
It is expensive (£9k/year) because it costs a lot to supply. Interestingly it only costs the state about £3500/year for a child at primary school,
but the class sizes are much bigger (up to 30, although typically 1:13 ratio from what I remember).
Matt
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Minicooper
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 11:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by davidimurray
Don't get me started on the 'system' - personally I am of the opinion work or suffer the consequences. Appreciate that there are
people who cannot work and that is what the system is there for but those who choose not to then they should be made to work or get nothing. If I walk
around my local town there is plenty of litter to collect, parks to keep tidy, railings to paint, dog muck to collect, old people to help, charities
etc make them do this sort of work 3 days a week - still have 4 days a week to 'job hunt'. If they refuse - no money.
Your system may work if there are plenty of jobs for all otherwise it fails miserably. There are about a half a million vacancies at any one time and
about two and half million unemployed.
Have a look in your local job center at the vacancies, the majority are zero hour contracts or commission only or very short term or trials not proper
jobs in any sense of the word.
The huge majority of people on benefits are not living the dream, it's a struggle every single day.
David
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franky
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 12:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Alternatively you could invest in your children by spending time with them.
I couldn't agree more Mike. We have 3 kids and had our first at the age of 21 when I was still at university and my wife was studying to become
a nurse. We've never had an excess of money (to say the least) but managed to put our kids first at all times. My wife stayed at home to give
the kids the best start while working part time in the evenings (supermarkets mainly) and studying to get her degree at open university. We were
managing to support a family of 3 on about £10k a year while I was on a sandwich year working at IBM before going back to uni for my final year. We
both worked during the holidays usually doing bar or restaurant work etc. We were always just on the wrong side of any entitlement to benefits
although never really tried hard to get them.
The point of all this is that we managed to raise a family without benefits on a modest household income. An important part of that was my wife
staying home, saving us a fortune on child care and most importantly raising the kids the way we wanted them raised. My Mum and Dad worked hard their
whole lives and so have my wife and I. Even our eldest two kids are qualified life guards and swimming teachers and work regularly to help fund things
like driving lessons and other luxuries.
Since then we have continued to prioritise the kids and are lucky to have our eldest at uni studying to be a doctor and having just been accepted for
an RAF medical officer cadetship. Our younger daughter is studying radio therapy and oncology at uni and our son is on course for good grades at
school and is also keen to join the RAF. Sport has been a big part of their lives as they all swam competitively with the local swim team and have all
been enthusiastic members of the local air cadets. This sort of team sport and military style discipline is really good for them and they get nice
rewards such as flights in gliders and powered aircraft and trips to RAF bases. My eldest even went with the RAF to the falkland islands last summer
and my son is going to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus this summer. None of these activities are expensive and are incredible value for money and can lead to
careers. Highly recommended.
Anyway, whilst I recognise that we've had our share of good luck and good health and owe a lot to the upbringing we received from our parents, I
believe the time we invested in our kids is by far the most important investment we will ever make and the work ethic we have passed on to them should
serve them well in the future.
"Your children will become who you are, so be who you want them to be" - Source Unknown
I think the uniformed civil service is a great place to work now days.
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nero1701
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 08:21 PM |
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My wife and myself work full time, I'm a teacher and my wife is in marketing,
we bought a flat 3-4 years ago, had our son 2 and a half years ago,
Due to the cost of childcare, we had to rent a 1 bedroomed flat to live in and rent out our home.
yet, in the window of the nursery there is a sign that says.
Are you on benefits? if so you are entitled to 16 hours free childcare per week....
fair or not? that's just the way it is!
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