GeoffH
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 05:15 PM |
|
|
Where's My Spark?
I posted on this issue some time back and annoyingly, it's still not fixed.
I've been trying to start my 1600 X/Flow since it came out after the winter in February. Before that it ran fine, pretty much. I did
occasionally get misfires when starting, which cleared after a few minutes.
I have a Lumenition optical system and get a spark from the HT lead to earth when interrupting the light beam on the switch - as it's supposed
to. However, no spark at the plugs. Changed the rotor and cap, the contacts in the old cap may have been slightly worn. Checked the ignition switch
was supplying the coil while starting, all ok. The coil does get warm after my tests but works fine otherwise wouldn't get the spark from the
HT lead. Checked the resistances on the coil, seem ok for the Lucas Sport coil - slightly higher than the regular coil.
This is pretty much a total failure rather than a slowly breaking down kinda problem, it was fine before the winter save for the sometimes mis-firing
on starting, now, nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 05:30 PM |
|
|
on a xflow, assuming the engine has not been taken apart it can only be
leads wrong way round
timing out or moved
wiring to the coil not connected, try a jump lead from the + on the battery to the + on the coil wil do the same as ignition on
coil shagged
lumention shagged, i removed mine as a bit duff, might have a couple of old ones knocking about
and that is it!!
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 05:50 PM |
|
|
I recently had problems with intermittant starting on my GTM which had a Lumenition system fitted and like you had a spark when interrupting the
optical sensor but it still wouldn't start even with new leads,coil, cap ,rotor and plugs. In desperation I brought and fitted a new Lumenition
kit, still wouldn't start so I ripped the electronic ignition out and fitted a set of points and condenser. It fired up straight away and
hasn't missed a beat since. I will not be using Lumenition again
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 06:01 PM |
|
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLoZ0pxLWGE
Found them 
sorry no help to you
Jacko
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 06:20 PM |
|
|
I should have said I had the plug out of the block, with the HT lead attached when I tested it. No spark. But sparking from the HT lead that goes to
the distributor when held near earth.
Strange but interesting Rusty Nuts, that you had the same problem and had a spark from the HT lead when interrupting the optical switch, but no
starting. How can that be?
Geoff H
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 06:32 PM |
|
|
Do you mean the ht that goes from the coil to the dizzy ?
if so it must be to do with the dizzy cap / rotor is the pick up in the cap ok
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 06:32 PM |
|
|
Don't know why but it was the same with a brand new Lumenition fitted , It might be worth trying a set of points and condenser? I had checked
all wiring etc with no luck and the previous owner had problems as well but since junking the electronic ignition it starts on the button every time
|
|
|
gremlin1234
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 07:55 PM |
|
|
the problem is quite simple,
too much spark, destroys rotor arms and caps very quickly.
|
|
|
avagolen
|
| posted on 29/4/14 at 08:16 PM |
|
|
Where abouts are you?
Maybe some kind person with experience can drop by and lend a hand.
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 30/4/14 at 08:44 AM |
|
|
I replaced the cap and rotor last week. That was my thought too, the power gets as far as the end of the HT lead but not the plugs.
Given I get a spark at the HT lead when operating the optical switch, could it be that when the engine is turning over, it's too fast to
generate a lot of sparks for some reason? Coil or Lumenition power module? Although this test is said by Lumenition, to confirm the whole system is
working ok.
I'm based in Hampstead, London if anyone is nearby.
GeoffH
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 30/4/14 at 11:00 AM |
|
|
Do you get a spark on the main HT lead whilst cranking? or only when manually breaking the beam?
|
|
|
jacko
|
| posted on 30/4/14 at 03:42 PM |
|
|
My sound daft but has the engine got a good earth to the chassis / battery and are you putting the spark plug on the engine when cranking the starter
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 30/4/14 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
Yes Jacko, good earth and spark plug touching engine while cranking. The engine had a lead straight to the battery.
DW100, I get a spark from the HT lead when breaking the beam. While cranking I don't know, I'm too far away at the ignition switch to
see. I've tried that but in daylight I can't see if there's a spark or not...or indeed hear if it's sparking.
|
|
|
avagolen
|
| posted on 30/4/14 at 08:28 PM |
|
|
Sorry - I cannot get to Hampstead, but have you tried it in the dark to see if the HT leads are tracking.
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 1/5/14 at 02:47 PM |
|
|
Ok to get to the bottom of things like this you have to go at it in a logical manner and not just do random things.
You have worked out that you have no spark at the plugs.
You have a spark whilst breaking the beam, so the next step is to check with the car cranking, if necessary by getting an assistant to press the
starter button. Follow the path of the spark, testing till it disappears.
If you have no spark whilst cranking then check the the chopper in the distributor is actually rotating.
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 1/5/14 at 02:56 PM |
|
|
DW100, ok I'll try that at the weekend. I've checked the chopper is rotating, I turned the engine over with the distributer cap off.
GeoffH
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 11:34 AM |
|
|
So I checked everything last night when it was dark, and I have sparking at the distributor end of the HT lead and at a plug. May have been last time
I checked it was too bright to see!
Anyways, engine still won't start. I can smell petrol on the plugs so there's petrol in the cylinders. If it's a mixture problem,
I have a single Dellorto 45 side draught. Ran fine before the winter with the occasional misfire on starting, which cleared when it was a bit warmed
up. Also, one time it stopped completely and I think that was because of an air lock in the fuel line somewhere as no fuel in the filter, but when I
loosened the fuel to carb, connector, all was fine again.
GeoffH
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 12:01 PM |
|
|
Ok well keeping to the basics. For it to fire you need Spark, fuel and compression.
I you have all these then you need to start looking at spark timing (this includes correct firing order)
and then fuel mixture ( is the carb flooding? Spark plugs that are soaked in fuel won't fire correctly)
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 12:09 PM |
|
|
Hi David
I'm assuming the firing order and timing are ok, it ran before the winter, but I'll check the firing order.
How do I know if the carb is flooding and if so, what do I do about it?!
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 12:30 PM |
|
|
Make sure you have the firing order correct, then try a fresh set of plugs.
It is very easy for an electric fuel pump to provide more pressure the the needle valve can close against. If you have an electric pump then check you
have a pressure regulator set to about 2psi.
Another thought is that you have stale fuel that refuses to burn.
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 12:41 PM |
|
|
Thanks DW
I'm using the X/Flow mechanical pump with a Malpassi pressure regulator but there's no way of telling what the pressure actually is, or of
setting it to a specific pressure.
Is there really such a thing as stale fuel??!!
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 03:40 PM |
|
|
Unleaded fuel does 'go stale' so just to use a process of elimination, squirt a puff of Easystart down the carbotooter. If it fires, you
have fuelling issues. If it doesn't run, you're back to chasing your missing sparks!
For me, the logical route would be:
Puff of Easystart to see if we're missing fuel or sparks.
If looking for sparks, stuff a spark plug in the end of the coil lead and check for a nice big fat spark.
If there's no spark, or it's feeble, go back to the LT wiring. With points, it's easy to see what's what but with electronic,
optronic, etc, it's not so easy.
If there's a fat spark at the end of the coil lead, then put the coil lead back onto the dizzy cap and check the rotor arm is OK and not
burnt.
Check the brush in the middle of the cap/rotor arm.
Then try a full set of plugs in the ends of the leads and lay them where they are grounded to earth. Check for sparks at each plug. They should be big
enough to see in daylight.
If you're losing the spark between the coil lead and plug, leads, you need to be going back the the dizzy cap and rotor arm. Check again for
tracking and/or cracks. Clean the inside of the cap thoroughly. Tracking can look like a hairline thick pencil line.
Check the rotor arms peg is in place and that it's sat in the groove correctly.
Make a checklist and get back to us with results!
Good luck.
ETA: the Lumention on my old A-series was very voltage sensitive! The cranking voltage dropped to 10v and it refused to start. Changing the coil for a
coil and ballast resistor helped for a while but ultimately, a new battery cured it!
[Edited on 13/5/14 by owelly]
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 13/5/14 at 03:55 PM |
|
|
Hi Owelly
Thanks for this,
As the thread has become rather long, to get you up to speed (!) I now have sparks at the distributor and of the HT lead and from one plug held to
earth, while cranking. Haven't checked the others but likely to be ok.
The distributor cap and rotor arm are new. Lumenition told me the drop-out voltage for their system is about 6v but not really relevant now.
How do I check for carburettor flooding?
Maybe try the Easy Start at the weekend.
GeoffH
|
|
|
avagolen
|
| posted on 30/5/14 at 08:13 PM |
|
|
Hi Geoff,
Have you fixed it yet?
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
|
|
|
GeoffH
|
| posted on 31/5/14 at 12:11 PM |
|
|
Amazingly YES!
Thanks for asking.
Owelly and a couple of others in the thread suggested it could be bad fuel, gone off over the months I hadn't used it.
I have to admit I was very sceptical about this, thinking it was an old wives tale. But I did a bit of research and apparantly fuel does go off,
losing it's volatility, if left over a few months which mine was over the winter.
So I sucked all the fuel out of the carburettor with a syringe from the local chemist. Replaced it with brand new fuel and Boom!!
It started.
It spluttered for a while, I guess from the old fuel still left in the pipes but when the new fuel in the tank got though, it ran fine.
How about that!
So thanks everyone, what a revelation!
|
|
|
.jpg)
