sdh2903
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 07:22 PM |
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engine choices
Hi all, I'm currently not in a position to start the full build of my next kit, however I'm in a position to start collecting bits and
possibly source the engine.
Now I know which car I will be building, and I know it's going to be a CEC and I know I want 200bhp. my 2 choices are s2000 or duratec.
I like the duratec engine but to get to my target bhp I will need ITBs and probably some cams, aftermarket ecu, then there's getting a box to
suit and a bell housing etc and then theres the management to run it all.
This is the point in my thinking I return to the s2k lump. Ok it might be a 2.5k outlay for an engine and box but it's 240bhp out the box and
only management required. The flip side being if I blow an engine it's a much bigger outlay to fix.
So which is the best overall package when you consider all the factors? Weight, performance, price, ease of install etc?
So I'm throwing it open to the LCB collective for your thoughts and opinions to help me make my mind up? 
Cheers
Steve
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daniel mason
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 07:37 PM |
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If you have the time you'll get your engine,box,diff,ecu,loom,ignition etc for nothing!
Search copart or ebay and get a crashed damaged s2000. Make sure you get one where the valuable parts are still intact and in good order.
You'd pick up a good low mileage car for £2500 then just strip it down.
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coozer
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 07:38 PM |
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I'm no where near my next build as I can't be arsed to finish the one I'm on ATM...
However I've deciced the engine is the 225 BAM engine from a TT or Cupra. This gives 225 bhp as standard and there's plenty of places that
can get it up to 270 plus a new turbo and fancy intercooler makes it over 300....
Good luck!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Slimy38
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I'm no where near my next build as I can't be arsed to finish the one I'm on ATM...
However I've deciced the engine is the 225 BAM engine from a TT or Cupra. This gives 225 bhp as standard and there's plenty of places that
can get it up to 270 plus a new turbo and fancy intercooler makes it over 300....
Good luck!
I'd love to do the same, having seen a fair few big builds using the 1.8 turbo engine it's certainly a tempting thought. If there was a
proven way to convert it to RWD I'd have been using one already!
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:02 PM |
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You will do a Duratec install and get 200hp for £1500.00
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:08 PM |
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Vauxhall turbo engine ?
Mines running 272bhp and 309ftlb and it's pretty much standard.
Alloy belhousing and a type 9 or omega box.
Easily do that for £1500
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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Simon
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:08 PM |
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BMW 320D
Has all the parts you need (apart from remap) and you'll get 45 mpg
ATB
Simon
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sdh2903
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:14 PM |
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I would rather keep the engine as N/A to be honest. As much as I love a turbo just not for me in a 7.
Dan. That was my first thought to break an s2000 however at present I don't have the space to house a car just enough to start tinkering with an
engine as I'm getting bored with no car related project.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903 I'm getting bored with no car related project.
I am with you on that. Ive just got an engine to tinker with at the moment but I know its there any time I want to play with the tools.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 09:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
You will do a Duratec install and get 200hp for £1500.00
Could you elaborate on the spec for that price?
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davidimurray
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 10:16 PM |
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SBD have some info -
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/History_files/History_The200Club.htm
and some specs from Vulcan http://www.vulcanengines.com/2L_I4_duratec.htm
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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SPYDER
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| posted on 11/10/14 at 10:31 PM |
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Also worthy of consideration is the Toyota/Lexus Altezza RS200 variant of the 3SGE engine. Dual VVTi, 210hp, six speed box.
Its a tall engine though as is the S2000.
And bang on the money...
TOYOTA ALTEZZA RS200 2.0 VVTI BEAMS 3SGE ENGINE &' 6 SPD GEARBOX AE86 DRIFT DONOR
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Nickp
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 06:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER
Also worthy of consideration is the Toyota/Lexus Altezza RS200 variant of the 3SGE engine. Dual VVTi, 210hp, six speed box.
Its a tall engine though as is the S2000.
And bang on the money...
TOYOTA ALTEZZA RS200 2.0 VVTI BEAMS 3SGE ENGINE &' 6 SPD GEARBOX AE86 DRIFT DONOR
That sounds like a pretty good value package to me.
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TimC
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 09:02 AM |
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Does it have to be NA? Saab 2.0 LPT gives 185bhp. I've a Hirsche ECU which takes it to 233bhp - smooth, very little lag etc.
Whole cars for £400+
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SteveWallace
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 09:12 AM |
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How about going down the BMW straight 6 route? With a 2.8 engine you get 193 BHP as standard and an easy way to getting another 40BHP through remap
and fitting the inlet manifold and TB from an M50. Engines and gearboxes are plentiful now on e-bay so are low cost, or you could buy a 328 or 528
and get your money back by selling the spares.
If you want to up the power again after a couple of years then its a straight swap for an M3 lump as the layout is the same.
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rodgling
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 09:53 AM |
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Pretty sure he'll have considered have the BMW option (OP's previous was a GKD).
Regarding the S2K option: it's very heavy, expensive, and tricky electronically I believe. Revving to 9k is a nice trick though.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 09:59 AM |
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Yes it has to be n/a. It's going in a westfield chassis so I'm sticking to a 4cyl. The duratec and f20c will both fit the factory chassis
without any chopping about. It's more about trying to decide which is the best overall package.
My original plan was to pick up an N4JB Duratec from a fiesta St and tinker with it and add the bodies and other goodies gradually while I get my
garage built. But as I said when doing the sums the f20c keeps cropping up as it's ready to go. The down side is, there would be little
tinkering to do.
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davidimurray
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 10:08 AM |
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Being in the middle of the prep for an engine swap (Pinto to Duratec) the most amunt of work/money seems to go into the ancillaries - manifolds,
pipework, alternators, sumps etc so it is worth looking at how much you can reuse from the S2000 lump.
For the Duratec you are most likely to consider -
Sump
Thermostat
Belt & tensioner arrangement
Water rail (if close to bulkhead) may need to replace
Coil Pack - can reuse but is on back of head so may foul bulkhead (can be moved below inlet manifold.
Oil filter & position - will need a replacement/adaptor
Bear in mind if you can get an st150 engine or a post 2008 focus engine they have better heads that are good for another 10+bhp
In my case I am going for bike carbs as I have them on the Pinto - they may hold it back a little but FI is a future upgrade for me.
The duratec is a nice light engine and beautifully designed. There I also plenty of knowledge around and tuneability, while not cheap there are plenty
of options from the UK and US.
While the ancillaries add to the cost of the initial setup - engines are cheap as chips and common so you can always pick up a spare or a project
engine easily.
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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daniel mason
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 11:33 AM |
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If you do things wisely like Andrew Jackson did with his install. The f20c honda has to be top of the list! As an engine it's hard to beat. Big
revs,big power, sound awesome, reliable,has it's own 6 speed box and 4.1:1 diff, prop and half shafts can be modified etc
Might be chaper to buy a crash damaged one and rent a garage for 2 months whilst stripping it out! That way you can get your hands dirty and
you'll still end up with a free drivetrain!
There's a guy who sprints an f20c westy in the wscc speed series. It's a well sorted car and very very quick!
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40inches
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 12:23 PM |
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Jaguar 3 litre V6? 240bhp, 220 torques.
I am fitting one in the MK. If you use the Getrag 221 gearbox= much cheapness, not that large and a pretty light install.
This guy has fitted one to a Westfield, although he went for the, almost, identical lower powered
Duratec version, with a modified (expensive) Type 9 box.
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coozer
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 12:45 PM |
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Anyone watch the Yank car shows? Fast n Loud, Rods n Wheels etc...
Amazing how cheap brand new high bhp v8s they have over there....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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sdh2903
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 01:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Anyone watch the Yank car shows? Fast n Loud, Rods n Wheels etc...
Amazing how cheap brand new high bhp v8s they have over there....
Yes very annoying. Shame they aren't that cheap by the time they get over here. A big American v8 in a 50's ford F100 is definitely on my
automotive project list after another kit
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twybrow
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 02:37 PM |
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How about the engine and gearbox from an RX8? Plenty of power and revs, and quite low and light.
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Dooey99
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| posted on 12/10/14 at 02:48 PM |
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Thought about a Toyota 2zz-ge engine, crashed celicas are really cheap and the 1.8l engine is 190bhp standard and is easy to get more out of and
easily cope with 290bhp as that what they are in a lotus 211 that is a standard engine with a supercharger and intercooler set up
Less weight more speed, more power more speed
If in doubt, give it a clout
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 13/10/14 at 07:31 AM |
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I'd give the Honda route some considerable thought. I'm currently building a duratec (rather, I have the bits in a cabinet awaiting a
build) and then Honda was on my list.
I was initially put off by the higher cost of entry and VVT, etc, but attracted by the normally aspirated nature of it.
In hindsight, I think I'd sooner have gone for the Honda and then I could have just used the entire lump and shoved fuel in.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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