Trev Borg
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 07:42 PM |
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Locost dry sump
Looks like I'm gona have to dry sump me car BUGGER !
Anyone out there got any ideas on fabricating a cheap dry sump kit.
Was thinking of using of using the power steering pump but not sure if it will run in air or not.
Any ideas welcome.
Fabrication is not a real problem forking out hard cash always seems to be
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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scutter
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 08:14 PM |
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Trev, what I remember, as dry sump pump will have to have 3/4 stages(ie seperate pumps) in it,
one stage to supply oil under pressure and two to return the heated therefore expanded oil to a storage tank.
Always willing to be proved wrong and interested in the idea.
All the best Dan.
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 08:43 PM |
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I was reading an article yesturday about k-series engines in Westfield having a single stage pump !
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 08:50 PM |
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http://www.headertanks.info/automotive-parts.shtml
yiu can surely get pumps cheaper than this !
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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Stu16v
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 09:26 PM |
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Is this you, or complete coincidence??? If not, someone else going through similar though
patterns...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Northy
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 09:38 PM |
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Hi Trev,
I believe there is going to be an article in the next Practical Performance Car magazine about diy (locost) dry sumping.
PS, I've U2U'ed you before as I only live in Malton, but you seem to ignore my messages. Can you tell me why? 
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing! 
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 26/11/04 at 11:21 PM |
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Not me I'm very glad to say.
This person you mentioned is O'Welly. He is the conciever of all the strange ideas i post about, and the person who forced me into using the
alfa.
I say 'Forced'. He just abandoned it on my drive.
The intention was to put the engine into his Magenta, but thought it more amusing to presure me into fitting it into my Gemini.
And as for Mr Northy, I apologise perfusely for not replying to your U2U's, still new to this forum thing, but if you let me know where you
live, i shall call round and drink your tea.
The mag you mentioned contacted Welly this week and wanted some photo's of the Engine in the gemini, cos i think they may be doing something on
Alfa converting as well.
Keep all you idea's coming in tho'
[Edited on 26/11/2004 by Trev Borg]
 
Rescued attachment 2004_1111_195032AAq.JPG
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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dmottaway
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| posted on 27/11/04 at 01:26 AM |
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You could think about a device called Accusump. It can be used as a "pre-oiler"
but also used as an oil "reserve." It is plumbed inline much like an oil cooler. Oil from the pump flows to the tank of the Accusump,
then to the block. Oil in the tank is maintained under pressure so that if the pump sucks air, then oil under pressure continues to flow to the
block. Oil/pressure in tank is replenished when pump picks up more oil.
Point here is that you can lower the amount of oil in the sump, safe in the fact that adequate oil, under pressure, is available in the tank. If you
don't need to maintain as much oil in the sump (its in the tank), you can shorten the sump to gain clearance.
www.accusump.com/
dave
[Edited on 27/11/04 by dmottaway]
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Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 14/12/04 at 01:16 PM |
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I was looking at a dry sump alternative for my CA engine setup. Single stage pumps can be had from Pace for about £165. My half baked plan was to
have a single stage pump driven by one of the spare pulleys on my front pulley (power steering and air-con drivers) modified to be toothed...then feed
the oil into a large header tank. Then a gravity feed pipe back to a pipe sticking out the sump that is in turn connected back to the oil pickup pipe
so the standard engine oil pump pumps it back round and pressurises it. So long as there was always a good head of oil gravity feeding the oil
pick-up anyone spot any mistakes.
Firstly the cost and potential of wrecking my fresh built engine has put me off, this may be something I will try with an old engine installed in the
200. Also the height gained at the sump is always weighed against the depth of the bellhousing which on my engine and gearbox combo it isnt worth
taking more than about 25-30mm off the sump anyhow.
So on cost and effort gorunds I am doing the old cut and shut sump trick.
James
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 14/12/04 at 04:57 PM |
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GB Engineering, (grass track fame) used to do a cheap dry sump, i had one on a Atmo Cosworth, it was very simple and you could make one yourself.
a ally block was/is machined to take internally oil pump gears from an oil pump of your choice, this acts as the scavage pump and is driven by a belt
from the crank pully, the standard sump is cut n shut maybe 2" deep, the oil pickup pipe is fabricated to stick out of a hole in the side of the
sump with a "dowty" seal on the inside and outside to make it oil tight, this acts as the normal inlet from the dry sump tank with the
scavange pump feeding the tank from the btm of the sump.
These worked very well with no failures i'm aware of, i ran one for two years before i sold the engine complete with the drysump, it went into a
westfield and as far as i know is still going strong.
Hope i made sense, not that far removed from your idea above.
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Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 14/12/04 at 05:18 PM |
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Yeah this sounds similar to my idea except for I would use an off the shelf pump. Also there is a bit of an assembly issue, hence why I was going to
have a say 1/2" bore pipe welded through the sump wall (similar to the turbo oil return pipe) the inside end being connected to the oil pickup
on the engine pump by a long run of rubber hose say 8"-10", so that when the sump is pulled down the rubber tube flexes and collapses or
whatever and it is possible to undo the jubilee clip holding it to either the feed pipe welded into sump or the oil pickup, alternatively there are
bound to be commercially available quick hose clip connector type things that could be used to avoid the mess and faff of undoing a very oily jubilee
clip.
But still the amount of effort to reduce the sump height is only worth it if the bottom of the bellhousing is quite high aswell, otherwise the only
reason for having the dry sump and a scavenging pump is simply to avoid any problems caused by potential oil surge problems.
James
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 14/12/04 at 05:53 PM |
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mentioned above is accusump, i run one of those with no problems, i know where there are two waiting for new owners at the right price, the one
advantage i find is its sat in garage now with 80psi of oil in it, i can send that round engine before i start it to pre oil it, as you prob know 99%
of engine wear/damge is done on start up till oil get around.
Ide be very waery of using any "flexible" pipe on the inlet side of the oil pick up, if the pump sucks it flat its "game over"
the system Geoff used was very simple with the solid pipe just bent to the side so it "showed" its face thru a hole in the side of the
sump when the sump was bolted up and sealed once tight'nd.
For insurance a sump cut as low as the bell housing with an accusump would work fine, that said a baffled sump cut to bell housing would work fine
too.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 14/12/04 at 06:32 PM |
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John Beardmore made his own for a FIAT TC.
Click here
HTH
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:55 AM |
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Excellent link !
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 05:53 PM |
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yes but he used an expensive pump. The rest is fairly easy to make (formula vauxhall juniors used a very similar system to Geoff Berrisford's as
described above, and we fitted this to my mates rally car)
The bit about making a casing to take 3 std Pinto oil pump gearsets is a flipping good idea, oh no, I may yet be doing this!!!!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:13 PM |
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yup, dry sump system for not much more than the cost of a tank, as Geoff got a web site ? i searched but failed.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:16 PM |
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this was as close as i got
http://www.subcontractingtalk.com/news/eur/eur101.html
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:17 PM |
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No he hasn't, he's too busy I think!! I have to order some beadlock wheels from him for next season's grassing!! Spend spend spend
at the mo! I won class 9 in Leics this year and got 2nd in East Mids so need to keep it up for next year. Getting a 2 speed Vauxhall F20 'box
built for next season too as 2nd is too short and 3rd too long at the mo!!
Will seriously think about the dry sump pump idea over winter! Any ideas on a cheap source for Pinto or X-Flow oil pump internals Jon?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:20 PM |
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that's exactly the only link I got too!! his phone no. is 01270 841081, and he does very nice sierra splined driveshafts in
"unbreakable" material to any length for £70 a piece at the last time I got some! (and mine haven't broken after a year of hard
abuse with 200hp and a locked diff)
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:24 PM |
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Auto factors ?? maybe he still does them himself ??
When i was grassin i used one of his modded VW box's, 2 x1st, 2x2nd, this suited long and short tracks and the shift was straight back from both
1st's too both 2nd's making it very fast change not having to go across the gate, i guess all these are in the museums now ? Is he still
competeing, he was class 10 national champ many times when i was racing class 10.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 06:34 PM |
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I was thinking of getting a lump of ally and having a go myself (well at work probably then I can let them ream out the housings!)
He was still racing last year, though I didn't see him out this year. There are a few longitudinal cars out there still, but most of the quick
9's (and 4cyl turbo 10's) are transverse now (including mine though it's not all that quick!) and GB charges the best part of 3
grand for a transverse box with hewland FG internals, 2 spd + reverse. Steve Walford (www.swmotorsport.tk I think?? he's a Leics club member )
is doing my gearbox, just hope it will be ok. His seems to be ok bolted to a 2.9 VR6 engine in his class 6 Nova!
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Stu16v
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:03 PM |
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Is he still competeing, he was class 10 national champ many times when i was racing class 10.
Geoff 'traditionally' raced in class 9 (North Shropshire, NS55), for many years, with a Cozzie motor longitudinally mounted in the
chassis. That was until the twin engined craze began. This was brought to being by a certain Chris Allanson, whose first car was a twin CBR 1000
powered special, mounted side by side. This thing was awesomely quick (and extremely cheap to build too, compared to the average top spec car engined
C9...). Geoff built his own version. Natural evolution took place - instead of mounting side by side, he mounted one engine in front of the rear axle,
and one behind. This was the first car I have seen to wheelie on a regular basis out of the start gate on dirt...
Soon, the 'twins' were moved to class 10, and Geoff with them.
P.s. he is one of the cheapest places to get aluminium replacement Cortina hubs too...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:08 PM |
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Have you had a look at my photo archive? Didn't realise there were so many grassers on here!! (grasser all designed/made by me and the pug also
(except the basic bodyshell of course!))
[Edited on 15/12/04 by NS Dev]
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Stu16v
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:19 PM |
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I gave up my CBR powered class 8 in 98 (I was East Midlands class 8 champ that year), to buy my first house.
I miss it dearly, and if I went to another meeting I am sure the welder would be employed building another one!
But, pound for pound, I think this Locosting malarky is much more fun. Tyres now last all year, as opposed to a few meetings (or even one race
sometimes!) And I can go to work in it, use it at night, and dont have to spend hours trying to dig it out of a huge clump of mud every week...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:31 PM |
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Hopefully when I've got mine done I'll be able to find out for myself!! Can't see the grassing finishing though! Already planning
the next one for 2006, have a pipe bender now so the chassis will be nicer, and a few suspension developments in the pipeline!
On the caterham sump foam front, how many people have you actually hear of problems from? I have spoken to 2 people at curborough running these who
couldn't speak more highly of them, but then the westy forum criticise them badly, I just don't know who to believe!?
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