alfas
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| posted on 28/5/15 at 08:02 PM |
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1.4L Zetec SE & 170ST straight change?
somebody told me that a 1.4zetec SE and the focus 170St engine can be changed without too many parts involed:
" a Zetec from a Focus ST170 drops straight in and bolts up to the existing gearbox - 185bhp with the original throttle bodies, mapping and a
new exhaust. Total cost was about £xxxx for the engine, exhaust and mapping."
is this statement more or less correct?
[Edited on 28/5/15 by alfas]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 28/5/15 at 08:20 PM |
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No, totally wrong. One is an all ally zetec se designed by yamaha, the other is the final derivative of the iron block zetec e.
Exhaust on the different sides of the engine, st170 has variable valve to control, different ecu and wiring, gearbox bolt pattern different. You will
also need mount, with the extra power and weight you may need better brakes as well. probably more cost effective to sell the 1.4 and just buy a
st170!
[Edited on 28/5/15 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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alfas
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 09:03 AM |
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thanks for this prompt reply.
so which engine would be an "easy" swop, consdering i want 170-200bhp?
2L duratec?
if i use the iron-block 2l zetec i have in / ex on the different side, means everything new. bellhousing too?
duratec has in / ex on the same side as the SE. would i also need new bellhousing?
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Ugg10
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 09:54 AM |
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Easiest, but not cheapest, would be to visit Shawspeed and get one of his 1.6 Zetec SE engines -
1.6 Zetec SE, ARP rod Bolts, SS4 cam, HD valve springs, Throttle bodies, ecu of your choice (MS, Emerald K6, Omex 600 etc.), large bore exhaust and
system plus fitting and wiring.
I would expect this little lot would be £3k and you would still have to do the brakes, tyres and suspension to make 170hp worth while and usable.
As I said before, much easier to flog the 1.4 and buy an St 170, they can be had from £1500 !
Example -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201505143464656/sort/default/page/1/model/focus/postcode/bn124xf/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/used
cars/keywords/st170/radius/1500/channel/cars/make/ford?logcode=p
If you want to go faster use any remaining budget to - strip it out (less weight to pull), decent suspension, decent tyres, better brakes (start with
pads) get geo set up, pay for track tuition.
The only other alternative is to buy a full front end clip and wiring loom from a ST170 and fit it but you still have the issue of brakes, tyres and
suspension to sort at the back end. So again buy a ST170 as they are cheap.
Unless you are thinking that you can put a 2.0l in a 1.4l registered car, not declare the change and still pay 1.4l insurance - which is illegal and
if you have an accident will get you free board and lodge for a few months !
As for duratec - the FWD gearbox has an integral bell housing i.e. nothing to swap but not sure if the Zetec SE and Duratec have the same bolt
pattern. Not sure the 1.4 gearbox would last long with 200hp going through it either.
I recon any swap to bring you to those power figures would be a ball ache and all will be over £2.5k in parts alone (ecu will be £700 alone) and to
re-iterate again - it would not be worth doing unless you can use the power safely with decent tyres, brakes and suspension.
[Edited on 29/5/15 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 29/5/15 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 11:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
As I said before, much easier to flog the 1.4 and buy an St 170, they can be had from £1500 !
If the OP has a 1.4 Focus then I agree. If the OP has a locost with a 1.4 Sigma engine, then things aren't quite that easy...
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coozer
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 12:02 PM |
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For the cost of swapping from an SE to Zetec E ££££££ I would suggest upgrading the platform your on.
A 1.6 with a forged bottom end and a supercharger or turbo?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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alfas
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 02:02 PM |
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its for a track car....its a ginetta g20.....quaife 5-speed T9 box fitted, sierra (quaife) diff.
IRS suspension
so its only about the engine. sorry for the confusion.
[Edited on 29/5/15 by alfas]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 02:40 PM |
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OK, that puts a bit of a different spin on things. Sorry, doing the unforgivable and ASS-U-MEing info from the original post and therefore ranting on
about Ford Focus fitting etc. Anyway .....
As the G20 was made with both the 1.4 Zetec SE for the Junior series and the 2.0l Zetec for the road/the grown up series then I would suggest all the
parts should be available to put an St170 engine in there. The type 9 gearbox will bolt up with a cheap cast iron bell housing or the escort RS2000
alloy bell housing is a favourite to save a few KGs. You may be able to get a couple of hundred £ for the 1.4 bell housing. I would be tempted to put
some bike TB's on it before you map it to make sure you get the best out of the engine, if you get an engine with the inlet manifold in tact
then there are plenty of how-to's on the web for fitting GSXR TBs directly onto it. I think you may also have to look at the water pump, on the
older silvertop it was a simple fix to get the pump running the other way (std part replacement), I think the later ones were a bit more tricky
(removal of the AC/PS pumps turns the water pump the other way, less efficient). That leaves mounts and exhaust, I think you can use the 2.0l non vct
zetec Ginetta parts for that. Last but not lease sump and water rail will need sorting.
After a bit of digging the G20 Junior came with a DTA S40 ECU which can run the ST170 with a mapping session, however it can only run the VCT system
in an off/on/off manner via the aux output (IIRC), a bit like the Honda VTEC. There is separate a VCT controller box on the market if you need
something a bit cleverer and to get the last ounce out of the engine.
After all of the above, a 1.6 zetec SE with a few trick bits will just drop in, a 1.7 Puma engine will also but will need the spigot bearing cavity
sorting and the VCT controller again.
Duratec will be more of a pain as you will need to source bespoke engine mounts, bell housing (I think) and I am not sure there is a stock exhaust
manifold for the G20.
Hope this helps.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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alfas
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 10:24 PM |
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exhaust manifold wouldnt be a problem as we have somebody doing such things.
ECU...preferred is using the existing DTA
bellhousing: as we already have a special bellhousing from zetec-se to ford T9: is this of any use for a duratec?
engine-mounts: shouldnt be a problem manufacturing them.
how many BHP does a 1.6L puma engine produce, in modest / reliabale tuning stage?
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Ugg10
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| posted on 29/5/15 at 11:00 PM |
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Looking at rwd motorsport bell housings, zetec se and duratec are very different.
http://www.rwdmotorsport.com/bellhousings.html
If using the zetec se the 1.4 manifold may be OK for a start.
Standard Puma 1.7 with 42mm bike tbs and decent exhaust will give 155hp (search jenko on here, his blog has a good write up on using the vtec method
of vct control), with arp bolts, HD springs and ss4 cam this should make 175hp and rev to 8k. Note 1.7 has a small spigot bearing cavity that needs
boring out. For a 1.6 I would expect 140-145hp and 160-165hp for the same mods. Worth contacting shawspeed if you are going down this route I think he
has a method of removing the vct from the 1.7.
Jenko used gsxr tbs, I am using triumph triple tbs that are similar to the jenvey direct to head ones.
[Edited on 29/5/15 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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beaver34
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| posted on 30/5/15 at 09:22 AM |
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and your sigma engine will weight 20kg less than a st170 lump
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