b14wrc
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| posted on 15/5/22 at 03:57 PM |
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Gear box rebuild
Hey all,
So I have started out on my power train build for the locost, as some might have seen I am exploring something different as usual. I have a 2.0 Fiat
coupe 20 valve turbo, and if that wasn’t enough I’m taking it further by hopefully building it into a 2.5 litre using the Stilo 2.4 bottom end and
some piston reworking to allow a lower CR and boost it. To compliment this fine engine build, I’m looking at a closer ratio gearbox, with 6 speeds.
Now last month I bought off eBay a Stilo Abarth “6 speed” box, now from my research I didn’t think they did one, but the seller was sure it had
forward 6 cogs in it, well it didn’t, so long story short I had a refund and he didn’t want it back. So, what’s the next step. Well I’ve read up as
much as I can about the Alfa/fiat C family of boxes and from what I have learned this C514.5 from the Stilo is very similar to the late spec coupe box
I already have and the Alfa Romeo C630.6 gear box from the 3.2v6 and 1.9 16v diesel as found in the Alfa GT.
Now, the ratios in the V6 are very similar to the Stilo and coupe, 3rd and 4th are identical. But a v6 box is rare and expensive. So I’ve ordered a
C630.6 from the diesel GT (£120), should be here next week. Now, not sure if it’s going to be possible, but I think I should be able to switch the
gears from the Stilo box I have into the new Alfa GT box replacing 3rd-6th with cogs from the fiat box. With the lower final drive as a pose to the
coupe box I have calculated at 6000rpm my gearing 1st to 5th could be a lot closer then I would have a 6th gear which I could tune to be a little
taller for cruising.
So I’ve started stripping the Free Stilo box, plan to use the bell housing as it has an internal clutch release mech and the diff casing hast got the
speedo gear, so can delete that using that casing.
Might all be a waste of time, but learning a lot about gear boxes and I have 2 other spare coupe 5 speeds if it all goes wrong.
From what I have learnt, this box is pretty strong, maybe not as strong as the F40, but better bearings than the M32. And in a light weight car, 410Nm
(the max rating of that box) it should all be pretty interesting.
If any one has any experience on these do please comment, I’m learning as I go. This Stilo box is in really good condition, no wear on the synchros or
gears, so it’s a good sign that my 2.4 litre bottom end should also be reasonable as it came off the same engine. I need some new pullers I think
before I go ahead and remove the gears, but if I have both gear sets side by side, I am confident I can make it work, lot of the part numbers are the
same.
Rob
20vt powered rear engined locost
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nick205
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| posted on 16/5/22 at 12:27 PM |
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Learning as you go with gearboxes is certainly brave, I'll give you that. Confident I could dismantle them, but reassembling one froma variety
of bits and having the confidence it's going to work is beyond my knowledge / skill level. Still, you'll have spares to fall back on!
Having built the car from scratch swapping out a gearbox shouldn't be too much of a task if you need to in the future - make sure there's
clearances for getting the old one out and the replacement one in.
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b14wrc
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| posted on 20/5/22 at 10:00 PM |
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 upload your photo
Got the Alfa 6 speed stripped and set out side by side the 5 speed fiat box. Both boxes in great condition and my research seems to have paid off,
think I can do what I want. Need to order some new tools next week. Going to clean up the casings next job, but I have tried the full gear set in the
casing. All fits.
Really pleased with the progress so far.
Rob
20vt powered rear engined locost
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b14wrc
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| posted on 21/5/22 at 12:00 AM |
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I think the trickiest bit of the reassembly will be getting the reverse spindle realigned to bolt up.
I’ll post the ratios I’ll achieve once I’ve got the gear set split.
But from my research and calculation, if I can achieve my goal, I should end up with a box similar to the 3.2 V6, but 1st and 2nd will be slightly
lower ratio and 6th will top out at about 136mph @6000rpm, compared to the coupe box @160mph in 5th. Should be perfect mated to my 2.5 turbo build.
I’m excited. Cost wise, this is working out much cheaper than a coupe or V6 6 speed, so happy to throw the money at it just for the learning. 
20vt powered rear engined locost
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bikecarbfred
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| posted on 21/5/22 at 04:58 AM |
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Once you have done it or even before would it be possible for you list all the tools you used to carry out the task i.e the kind of hydraulic press
you use and if any testing rig you have built up. thanks.
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b14wrc
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| posted on 21/5/22 at 07:24 AM |
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Yes I’ll share all the details as I go. No problem. It’s all experimental, like said earlier, there isn’t much info out there on this kind of
conversion.
20vt powered rear engined locost
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bikecarbfred
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| posted on 21/5/22 at 08:42 AM |
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It is it the conversion , but the general know how to pull
Off or press out the gearing: circlip removal re- assembling : ways of testing before putting back together.
It’s the expense of the tooling required because as these gearbox age only Cheaper way really would be to diy.
I can build my type of engine but I had a look at the gearbox and just threw it away lol
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b14wrc
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| posted on 12/6/22 at 02:03 PM |
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The stripping of the two gear boxes is nearly done..... been a little frustrating, the 5th gear on the Stilo box was solid, my 6ton press has
struggled to to get it shifted. So I cut it off  and had it on the lathe. It’s in the freezer to chill over night and I’ll try again tomorrow with
some heat.
Learnt a fair bit so far.
Once all stripped am going to do some measuring and calculations, then I’ll post my final achievable ratio choice.
Rob
20vt powered rear engined locost
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b14wrc
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| posted on 23/6/22 at 12:13 PM |
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My locost ratios are highlighted in Blue.
 mouse checker
More updates to come soon as I will be starting the rebuild.
Rob
20vt powered rear engined locost
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b14wrc
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| posted on 25/6/22 at 09:01 AM |
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So bought a 5th gearbox, this is the 2.5 Alfa V6 box, wanted it for the 6th gear, going to use that on the rebuild rather than fabricate my own custom
6th.....
So now I have two spare 6 speed shafts and extra gears. Interestingly this box had done 104k before the diff let go destroying the bell housing, but
the condition of the synchros and selector folks are in pretty poor condition in comparison to my 80k mile diesel GT box.
Also, there are additional strengthening braces on the GT box, so I think I am building the strongest possible option. 3 boxes to build one, cost wise
with the little odd replacement parts I’m still under £300. And in the future should I have a failure I should be able to rebuild it.
The casing has now been cleaned in the dish washer, it’s looking pretty clean now.
I will do a detailed post when I come to assemble it, next job will be to remove the V6 6th gears and clean those. Then paint the casing. I want to
restore all the fasteners too, so I may want to re-plate them, another interesting process to learn and master.
Rob
[Edited on 26/6/22 by b14wrc]
20vt powered rear engined locost
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b14wrc
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| posted on 30/7/22 at 01:41 PM |
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Afternoon all,
So I have been so busy of late I haven’t had time to get on with putting the gear box back together. Managed to have a couple of much needed hours
last night and this morning to start the assembly now I have all the parts I needed. Gone back together reasonably well, I’ve added new bearings and
everything internally has been cleaned and checked. I chipped a couple of teeth on my 4th gear on disassembly, so replaced that with a new one for
peace of mind. All synchro’s are good and no damage or wear to the main component. I think I’ve used the best and strongest standard parts I had
available. So as far as a quality budget build goes, I’m pleased. Should have a nice short ratio box for track use and then a longer 6th gear (160mph)
for road use, at 70mph the engine won’t be reving that hard, so I think it’s turned out well.
Still the diff to do, and clutch slave cylinder and seal, the selector needs a rebuild and clean. But it’s coming along.
20vt powered rear engined locost
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