givemethebighammer
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| posted on 10/6/05 at 11:36 PM |
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oil cooler - needed ?
I was talking to a bloke at the local garage, he has been around a while, worked on most types of cars and has been involved in various motorsport
activities. He thinks that fitting an oil cooler to my car would be beneficial, particularly as I intend to use it on the track.
Questions are;
does my 2.0L zetec really need one ?
If so what size ?
were any ford cars fitted with one as standard so I can source a cheap sandwich plate (and maybe an oil cooler if small enough)
and finally is it OK to mount it in front of the radiator because that's the only place I can see where one will fit.
thanks
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gazza285
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| posted on 10/6/05 at 11:56 PM |
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Have you lowered the sump volume? and what sort of motorsport/trackwork are you planning to do? If you've cut the oil volume and plan on running
the motor hard then yes, but realise that the car is a lot lighter than the donor so the motor will have a lot easier time of things unless you are
really giving it some. How often are you at full throttle in a "normal" car and how often in your Tiger? Fit an oil temp gauge first and
see how hot it gets before splashing out (money that is, not oil). Sandwich plates are cheap on eBay, but you'll need a thermostat as well, and
pipes and a cooler, which all adds up. Get the gauge first and find out if you need all the extra expense and weight first, I doubt you will.
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zetec
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 06:23 AM |
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I've never fitted one and oil presure has always been OK even using the thin oil these engines need, 5W/30W. I asked a couple of companys who
tune these engines and they said not to fit one as these engines need to run hotter than older engines like the Xflow and Pinto. My oil presure
(according to the guage) never drops below 40PSI at idle even if the engine has had a good thrash on a hot day.
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Danozeman
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 08:09 AM |
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Theres not many zetecs that have oil coolers standard TIAO. As said above. If u think of the weight difference of the cars modeo 1 tonne and locosts
0.5t. Shouldnt need one as the engine wont be working that hard even if u thrash it.
Me father in law had a vaux senater 3 litre 24v. the oil cooler burst on that so we made a pipe up and bypassed it. The temp etc never changed. That
used to get driven fairly hard.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 08:59 AM |
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I dont think you can say that just because its in a lighter car, it won't get worked so hard. On track you will be constantly at full
acceleration and using all the revs far far more than you ever could on the road, so the oil will have a much harder time than it would on the road in
either car.
The best thing is to do as suggested, fit an oil temperature and pressure gauge before investing in an oil cooler and see what it does, if on track
you don't see anything more than 100-110c oil temps, then you probably don't need one.
If you find you do need one, then Think Automotive would be the chaps to go and see, a sandwich plate is only around £15-30 anyway so won't
break the bank, its the oil cooler radiator itself that usually the most expensive part of the equation, you're probably looking at at least
£100 to install one using new parts.
Chris
[Edited on 11/6/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 09:44 AM |
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ChrisGamlin has it spot on --- only way to know is to check the oil temperature and pressure. It is nothing to do with the weight of the car, it is a
lot to do with RPM, air speed, oil capacity, water temperature and ambient temperature.
Fitting an oil cooler without a thermostat will cause more damage than the oil getting a bit hot, a road car with an oil cooler should always have an
oil thermostat. Ideally the oil temperature should be a bit higher than the water temperaure as this is hot enough to avoid condensation accumulating
in the sump.
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 11:21 AM |
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Thanks firstly, no I haven't lowered the volume of oil. Secondly it will be used for trackday stuff not competition.
Where is the best place to mount the sender for the oil temperature. I notice that I have a couple of holes in the zetec engine block that are blanked
off. One to the left of the current oil pressure switch, and one on the exhaust side of the block (which I led to believe was intended for an oil feed
to a turbo). I could easily mount another vdo sender and wire a toggle switch on the dash to use the temp gauge to read either oil or water.
On another thought a friend of mine had his sump plug drill and tapped to accept the oil temp sender. Not sure what the thinking was on this.
I've not used the car on the track yet so I just want to ensure I don't wreck it the first time I do.
thanks
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 01:54 PM |
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On both my previous (bike) engines, Ive just had a boss welded into the sump to take the oil temperature gauge. That was mainly because there wasnt
anywhere else to take it from.
The important consideration for a temperature sender is to ensure its actually sitting in a flow of oil. Something like the blanked off feed for the
turbo may not be of much use because if its a single feed which is effectively a dead end when blocked off or when a sender is installed, then your
sender won't see very hot oil because the oil leading up to it isnt in the main flow of oil and will just be "stagnant".
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stevebubs
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 09:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by givemethebighammer
Thanks firstly, no I haven't lowered the volume of oil. Secondly it will be used for trackday stuff not competition.
Where is the best place to mount the sender for the oil temperature. I notice that I have a couple of holes in the zetec engine block that are blanked
off. One to the left of the current oil pressure switch, and one on the exhaust side of the block (which I led to believe was intended for an oil feed
to a turbo). I could easily mount another vdo sender and wire a toggle switch on the dash to use the temp gauge to read either oil or water.
On another thought a friend of mine had his sump plug drill and tapped to accept the oil temp sender. Not sure what the thinking was on this.
I've not used the car on the track yet so I just want to ensure I don't wreck it the first time I do.
thanks
I've put mine in the sump, but there are 2 outlets on the offside you can take it from if you want the temperature in the block.
S
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stevebubs
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 09:43 PM |
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But don't T it in with the oil pressure sender as you want the oil to be flowing past.
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 11/6/05 at 09:48 PM |
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so do I want the oil temperature in the block or in the sump ?
thanks
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 12/6/05 at 08:43 PM |
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Either, as long as it is in a flow of oil, not at the end of a dead end pipe.
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 12/6/05 at 09:35 PM |
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thanks Chris, sounds like the blanked off hole to the left of the oil pressure switch then. Picture not my car but two holes clearly visible.
[Edited on 12/6/05 by givemethebighammer]
 
Rescued attachment blanking plugs offside.jpg
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johnston
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| posted on 12/6/05 at 09:40 PM |
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we took the oil cooler off a grp n evo 3 (due to other members of service crew reshaping it wit the towball of service van)
never put it back on converted it to grp a and never had a problem thats with a turbo and driving hard
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phelpsa
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| posted on 12/6/05 at 10:01 PM |
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I have the biggest mocal oil cooler you can possibly get, but my engine is oil cooled
I agree, don't fit one just for the sake of it.
Adam
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 13/6/05 at 08:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnston
we took the oil cooler off a grp n evo 3 (due to other members of service crew reshaping it wit the towball of service van)
never put it back on converted it to grp a and never had a problem thats with a turbo and driving hard
No offence johnston, but thats pretty much irrelevent to the decision making process here. Each engine installation needs to be taken on its
own merits, as Britishtrident said, its all to do with things like RPM, air speed, oil capacity, water temperature and ambient temperature. Even if
you have two identical engines side by side, if they are installed in different cars with different body shape, different radiator position, different
useage (road / track / rally etc), they will need vastly different oil cooling requirements.
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