greasy nipples
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 07:51 PM |
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which is best 2litre zetec or 3.5 rover v8
my friend and i have been discussing which is best a 2 litre zetec, or a rover v8.
we have had this running for a while, but we thought we would let you answer it for us so which is best let us know?
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thetankwad
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 08:15 PM |
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well, it depends... do you mean in a locost or in general. personally, the sound a V8 makes does it for me every time.
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greasy nipples
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 09:54 PM |
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well we are on about in a locost and i think that the zetec can sound just as nice. and it is slightly lighter than the v8 and i know you cant get as
much torque as a v8 but with a light wieght chassis and a bazooka inlet manifold you can get 190+ lbs of torque and 175bhp it will be pretty quick
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bigend
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 10:46 PM |
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well it has to be the V8 of course, the engine is nearly infinitely tunable, has oddles of power to start with, and produces 190 lbs of torque just
above tickover, and the sound that a V8 makes is enough to stir anyones soul,
if it don't fit, hit it with a bigger hammer
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 10:51 PM |
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a V8 rover is a bit like a jag V12 - you can always tell them go buy as they make a characteristic burbly, or whooshy kinda noise. You know what i
mean!
I used a V6 cos i wanted summat a bit distinctive. I think you have a fairly balnced choice - but hasnt the V8 about 10 - 20 more hp out of the box?
Much more interesting engine than a Zetec.
Could be cheaper than a zetec - they have been around over 35 years.
atb
steve
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 11:23 PM |
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V8 has 16 fewer problems when the timing belt breaks.
Enjoy
[Edited on 14/1/03 by jollygreengiant]
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Rorty
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 03:17 AM |
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Even though the Rover engine's design dates back to the 1950s, they are still an enduring, under stressed engine.
They're light, simple as, make reasonable power even in standard trim, and they've been used in so many forms of motor sport, that there are loads
of after market tuney bits for them.
I doubt if you will be reminiscing about the Zetec 50+ years hence.
But then I'm highly biased!
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 08:39 AM |
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V8 with DCOE(s)
V8 with IDA's(4 of)
V8 with Holly(s)
V8 with Injection
V8 with BIG TWIN Exhaust (stainless steel, tuned)
V8 with .......... MY CAR.
V8 with a vengence.
V8 with a big fuel tank.
V8 with nitro/methanol/?
V8 with a supercharger.
V8 with a turbo(s)(?).
V8 with.................yours answers please on a postcard to..............
Enjoy.
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Findlay234
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 08:49 AM |
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i have seen a good engine with two home built turbo systems. the base engine was a v8 off a landrover of some kind, ie the lower compression. then
they used two MG metro turbos. all sound quite cheap.................... very locost!!!
cheers
fin
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Simon
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 09:11 AM |
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Greasy,
I'd say use Rover V8, but then I'm slightly biased.
See pics in my archive.
If you do go V8, I'd suggest making chassis 4" wider - I have, and it's still quite tight.
ATB
Simon
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kingr
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 10:56 AM |
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Well, I'm gonna go for the unpopular choice, the Zetec, why? Cos it's a revvy little b**tard. It's comparatively kind on fuel, it's current, it's
cheaper and easier to get hold of, it's lighter, it's a million times less poluting, it's much easier to put in your car, and getting a gearbox to
mate it up to isn't a problem either. It's not all good though, it's not as "hands on" (more ECU type malarky, and higher tolerances), it
doesn't have "the sound", and you do have to use more than two gears (forwards and reverse).
Kingr
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greasy nipples
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| posted on 16/1/03 at 10:18 PM |
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well thanks for the support guys looks like i am going to have to sell my nice new zecack and buy a knackered old sd1 to hack appart. kingr, you are a
very nice man and thanks for sticking up for me! I must admit that a v8 sounds really kick-ass but i am young and i like new stuff oh and by the way
mr giant you can turbocharge, supercharge,nitroand all that other stuff you said, oh just one other thing did anybody know when they brought out the
focus it ran a turbo'd zetec with ***300BHP*** no further questions
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greasy nipples
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| posted on 16/1/03 at 10:19 PM |
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well thanks for the support guys looks like i am going to have to sell my nice new zecack and buy a knackered old sd1 to hack appart. kingr, you are a
very nice man and thanks for sticking up for me! I must admit that a v8 sounds really kick-ass but i am young and i like new stuff oh and by the way
mr giant you can turbocharge, supercharge,nitroand all that other stuff you said, oh just one other thing did anybody know when they brought out the
focus it ran a turbo'd zetec with ***300BHP*** no further questions
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/1/03 at 10:41 PM |
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just cos an engine is newer doesnt make it better.
If you want summat with a young, efficent, kick ass, revvy zippy feel, is something from a rep wagon ford that young and go ahead an image?
Go bike!
atb
Steve
ps - the v8 has been used in a lot more than an sd1 - how about a later, bigger derivative from a range rover......
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david walker
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| posted on 16/1/03 at 10:54 PM |
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Isn't it like asking if you prefer a Bentley Turbo to a Lotus Elise? They both have their own qualities, it's horses for courses.
For 20 years I have been heavily involved with Autograss Racing and can tell you that within this sport, because of the lack of tuning restraint in
many of its classes there is an enormous amount of engine development carried out. At the top level you will find the most developed race engines in
motorsport. The Rover V8 had its day but thats some years back now. In natrually aspirated form the Zetec never even made it to the starting line. You
use them in kit cars because they are cheap and plentiful and bolt up to a type 9 box!
As for the Focus Zetec, a single example of this engine was actually run in Autograss the year before it made its debut in the WRC cars. In it's
class - against 500BHp Chevies, and twin bike installations it was more than competitive. However it made exactly 300bhp because thats what the WRC
rules said. It could easily make much more, but it runs with an almost flat power curve and that in itself is a great quality in a competition
engine.
For a turbocharged engine of 2 litres, 300 bhp is nothing. Who saw Per Eckland's "Pikes Peak" Saab in the live action at the Autosport show last
weekend? That makes a good 800bhp from 2 litres and ticks over like a baby!
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 16/1/03 at 11:15 PM |
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Old chinese proverb. "If you want to go quick, theres no substitute for cubes."
Napier Sabre. 24 cylinder, H block Aero engine. 48 spark plugs, Super charger, Sleeve Valves. 3000HP+. Now how can I smuggle it out of Hendon or
Duxford? 
Enjoy.
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kingr
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| posted on 17/1/03 at 11:19 AM |
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I'd be intrigued to know how long a 2 litre saab engine producing 800Bhp will last, not an awfully long time I shouldn't think, and doubtless it
only runs on race fuel anyway.
My understanding is that while insane ammount of BHP/litre can be produced, the biggest problem is crappy pump fuel, which will cause detonation if
the boost is too high, lower compression will help this, but that will cause idling problems.
Incidentally, according to Evo, back in the good'ol days of F1 Renault and BMW engines were producing 1000BHP/litre, but that was running funny fuel,
which caused them to explode rather dramatically when they reached the end of their life. Apparently BMW used 100000 mile road blocks for their crazy
power engines, because "the metal had settled" or something like that.
Anyway, the Saab pikes peak car was sponsored by Garrett, so it's not entirely suprising it had enormous turbo'ed power, it's definately in their
interests.
Didn't it get beaten by some Porsche or something?
Kingr
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interestedparty
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| posted on 17/1/03 at 12:23 PM |
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I'm familiar with both these engines, and have examples of both in my garage at the moment. I used to be a big fan of the RV8, and in the right car
they still make a great engine. For a Locost, however, I would choose the Zetec
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/1/03 at 05:49 PM |
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Zetec, why ? cos they use proper head gaskets n not tin foil, oh and you don't have to prime the oil pumps either.......
in standerd form that is....
tuned may be a different matter but then you need £££££'s
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bigend
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 12:04 AM |
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don't you have to spend around £1500 pounds on the zetec to get it running, once it's been romoved from the donor? i thought you needed throtle
bodies and an ignition system before you even started tuning it!!!!
with that sort of money you could rebuild and tune a R V8 to 250bhp with a little bit more money i'm sure you could get it to rev to over 6500 no
problem, so you'd be on to a winner from the start
so greasy, you know it makes perfect sense, ditch the zetec and go Rover V8!!!
if it don't fit, hit it with a bigger hammer
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interestedparty
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 07:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigend
don't you have to spend around £1500 pounds on the zetec to get it running, once it's been romoved from the donor? i thought you needed throtle
bodies and an ignition system before you even started tuning it!!!!
with that sort of money you could rebuild and tune a R V8 to 250bhp
I'd be very happy to know how you are going to rebuild and get 250bhp from a Rv8, I think you are being hopelessly optimistic. I'm ready to be
corrected, though, and if you can tell me how to do it I've got an RV8 ready and waiting for that treatment
PS. Get a 92-96 2ltr zetec and all you need is a £1000 set of '45s and an ignition module and you've got 165BHP with the rest of the engine as
standard, and an SVA pass
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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donut
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 03:10 PM |
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I would have thought that 250bhp from a Rover V8 was the bottom end of it's power potential. One thing the V8 will win on is torque. I heard from a
friend that a club member who had a Robin Hood V8 just kept spinning the rear wheels all the time and it got very annoying.
Andy
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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interestedparty
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 04:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by donut
I would have thought that 250bhp from a Rover V8 was the bottom end of it's power potential.
I'm not saying it can't be done (250bhp from an RV8 that is) I just want to know how it can be done, including rebuild, for £1500
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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david walker
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 05:45 PM |
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John, You're right. You can't legitimately rebuild a RV8, buy the necessary ancilliaries etc and achieve a 250bhp installation for 1500 quid.
There is a well known Robin Hood, an ex factory car, (maybe the one Donut refers to), with a tuned V8 of about that power. We did the engine, it's
3.9 litres and cost a good deal more than that.
These engines are tunable but getting much over 200, without forced induction, is hard work. What they have going for them is good standard power,
fairly compact, nice sound and importantly for us, light weight (about same as a Pinto).
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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bigend
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| posted on 18/1/03 at 08:14 PM |
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so mr walker, rover got it right when they fuel injected it and dumped it in the vitesse then, i'm sure that the quoted figures were 190 bhp, i would
have thought it was resonably easy to get an extra 60?
what needs to be done to achieve the extra bhp that i want? i'm assuming the biggest benefit would be with the heads and manifolds etc, then i could
fit a camshaft to take advantage of the better breathing, am i heading in the right direction,
btw, i've increassed my total to £2000, i forgot to add the vat on , why don't advertisers include vat as most people can't claim it back!!!!
if it don't fit, hit it with a bigger hammer
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