Simon
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 08:57 PM |
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What turbo's:)
Peeps,
I have all my FI bits, so am going to get that up and running.
In the future, I intend to weld two plenums together (both tb halves) so I have two inlets, get MS and a pair of turbos - in theroy they'll go
straight into each side of modded plenum.
Question is what turbo's - I want to do this on the very cheap, so am thinking Volvo 440 units or at a stretch, Audi TT.
Half a 3.5 V8 = approx 1.7l.
That's my thinking anyway
Thanks
ATB
Simon
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:00 PM |
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Good old Rs turbo. Loads about.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:01 PM |
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Not sure if they're the same as above, but a pair of Garret T3s should do nicely.
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:02 PM |
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I am sure there was a guy who put metro turbos on a dutton b4 a got good response???
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mark chandler
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:34 PM |
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Escort SI RS turbo's, air cooled so less hastle.
Pop over to weld the halves up.
Rgds Mark
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Simon
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 09:53 PM |
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Mark,
We've got an ACDC tig at work, but it's about a hundred years old and a bit tempermental, so will quite possibly take you up on your
offer.
BTW, where does the oil supply come from - can I take a couple of feeds from my remote filter pipework?
ATB
Simon
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cornishrob
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 10:25 PM |
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remote filter has the valve on the cold side of the cooler so the cooler is always pressured correct?
if so this would probably be a good place, either that or a sandwich plate on the filter housing.
all escort RS turbos can be air cooled it just shortens the life of them. a lot of RS turbo owners disconnect the water cooling in the summer to keep
temps down.
iirc boost performance sell manifolds for the rover V8 engine.
Rob
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AdamR
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| posted on 21/3/06 at 11:40 PM |
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Totally off topic, so apologies, but...
Simon, I'd really like to see some up-to-date pictures of your car with the reduced bonnet bulge, how much space you have around the engine etc.
Any chance you could post some?
Ta
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froggy
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 12:45 AM |
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simon ,ive got a pair of cast p6 manifolds with centre outlets ideal for turbos buried in my lockup make a note when you get started. in a seven the
easiest setup will be a single turbo on the drivers side to a chargecooler into the plenum .i mocked it up in my chassis with a pair of t3 ,s and the
plumbing and paths to the intercoolers is a bit of a mess .
you could sit the chargecooler on top of the turbo and put the throttle body on the back of the plenum giving you a really short path with one 180
elbow .must be loads of more modern jap turbos you could use .
a single turbo on 9.35cr would be quite nice to drive and with 7psi would push you towards the 280bhp mark on a 3.5
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jambojeef
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 12:09 PM |
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Its a while since I looked at the calcs but I would imagine that even with the huge variety of t3s there are - 2 of these would be way over-sized for
a standard RV8 and its associated VE.
I think its best to actually run the calcs on your engine and work out exactly what the air flow characteristics are at the boost you want.
You could be surprised at how inefficient 2 big turbos like t3s would be on that engine
Geoff
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Liam
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 12:42 PM |
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Agree with me dawg Jeef here! That old V8 really dont flow much air for its size. A single T3 is good for, what, 300+ bhp on a cossy engine. I
think you'll find a standard 3.5 RV8 would struggle to spool up two of them. Do the calcs and look at compressor maps, but I imagine
you'll be looking at a pair of something T25 sized (rover 800 vitesse) or even T2 (r5 turbo etc etc).
I'm fitting two T2s to my 2700 V6. 180-200bhp NA and hoping for 280-300bhp turbo'd.
Liam
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froggy
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 01:50 PM |
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i think a single t3 would run 7psi on stock 9.35 cr without any probs . i remember a v8mk2 golf with a single t3 in ccc a few years back with that
very set up but through a normal intercooler where it would have a very short path if you used a charge cooler between compressor and throttle body
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02GF74
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 02:57 PM |
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do you have enough for twin turbos?!?!?!
what about getting a bigger engine, 4.6 l would be producing close to your twin tubo engine?
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Liam
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 03:50 PM |
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Yeah but a 4.6 dont go
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooshhhh - PCHOOOO!!
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froggy
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 04:04 PM |
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liam i think i should keep those spare front diffs if your blowing your motor as i think you might need one before me
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 05:12 PM |
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Just stick a real Rover Vitesse engine by that I mean the 2 litre 4 cylinder job from an 820 -- 190 bhp without any hassle.
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cornishrob
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| posted on 22/3/06 at 06:00 PM |
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on the subject of cooling there are a lot of jap cars which run tiny little coolers on top of the engine.
The celica GT4 in the larter 94> quise hase a nice little charge cooler set up which can be bought on ebay regulary for a few hundred notes.
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Simon
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 07:41 PM |
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Right Chaps,
Managed to (badly) photoshop the plenum chamber, and this is it:
With exhaust exit about 10" below, should be quite a short bit of pipework!!
Adam,
Am going to put some more up to date pics of car in archive this evening.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 26/3/06 by Simon]
 
Rescued attachment modified plenum 1.JPG
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Simon
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 08:33 PM |
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Can't upload this to archive so putting it here
ATB
Simon
 
Rescued attachment Front.JPG
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 09:27 PM |
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the T2 fitted to volvos is water cooled , so youll have that aswell to figure out .
the T3 is a much better option since you can upgrade quite easily , the T2 will be fully spooled by 2500 rpm .
i think a single T4 - or a holset HX35 from a diesel truck would suit you better , less intake plumbing even if you have to do some exhaust
fabrication .
A bloke in the US has over 600 hp/ ft lbs torque from a 3 litre PRV with a single T4 turbo with two simple pipes and a y piece to where his turbo
mounts .
a 3.5 V8 will still flow reasonably , but require not so much boost , so youll need a bigger compressor for a start .
can you give a boost level that your engine can live with , that will give me a better idea of what you might need
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Simon
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 10:18 PM |
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volvosport,
I've been hoping you'd join in
From the limited amount of research I've done, the following link seemed to be useful - particularly the comments from "Philip"
about halfway down (time 3:54PM) - I think this is the chap who's quite into writing stuff for MS, so I reckon he knows his stuff.
http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7929.html
I'm thinking that (for starters) 6-7psi boost (no i/c or water injection) - I will be using ms by then.
If I find figs work out and car performs ok, then I may well go for i/c before increasing boost.
I'm not worried about the amount of fabricting involved - part of the fun of this car was the building, so don't mind more
What I do want to do (initially) is keep costs down
HTH
ATB
Simon
PS - forgot to mention, engine comp ratio is 9.35 : 1.00, so not to different to those mention in the linky
[Edited on 26/3/06 by Simon]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 10:44 PM |
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well , i see no immediate problems running a single turbo , it depends if you have space for one at the front (or the back) for it .
the Noble v6s use some small T2 lookalike - ill have a closer look tomorrow .
the T3/T4 turbos of ebay would seem an obvious choice for a low boost engine since youll still be wopping out 300 bhp , and the airflow with it .
getting one thats too big , you may end up in surge which can destroy a turbo .
the diesel holsets might also be a good choice , large flow , large capcity engine without too much hp . the HX35 / 40 series are commonly found on
volvo trucks !!!.
need to dig up some compressor flow maps , see which direction you might be headed in .
the holsets tho will come without an internal wastegate , not such a bad thing , an external is much better at controlling the turbo , generally
because it has a bigger hole , for wasting the gas away , and also they open much larger than a std gate .
try the USA for some ebay turbo auctions - ive bought some , and im still dealing with one company in particular - who have been actually pretty good
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oil feed can come from the oil pressure sender , it really needs to be about 8mm at its smallest on internal diameter , i use 3/8 braided hose from my
local hydraulic supplier with fittings already crimped on .
oil return has to be bigger by about 50% otherwise oil backing up in the turbo will see it escape through the seals and the ensuing clouds of smoke
!!
at a guess - even with a new turbo from the states youll be sub a grand with megasquirt .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Simon
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| posted on 26/3/06 at 11:39 PM |
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Prefer to go with a twin as I think I'll be able to control under bonnet temps better - they'll both be mounted close the
"extractor" vents in bonnet (bear in mind, bonnet is to be remade in one piece rather then the 3 glued together bits I have at the mo, so
will be subject to a restyle to incorporate necessary venting). A single turbo would ideally need to be mounted at the rear (no room at the front),
and that will be to close to the scuttle/wiring/master cylinders etc etc for my liking.
Correct me, but I've heard advice given against using diesel turbo's on petrol engines - something to do with EGT and exhaut turbines
being of differing specs.
ATB
Simon
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atomic
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| posted on 27/3/06 at 10:02 AM |
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Try and get yourself the Turbo from a Nissan Sunny/Pulsar GTi-R. They use cermaic a turbine and as such have very little turbo lag. On the SR20-DET
engine they are good for about 280-300BHP.
If you plan on getting a refurb turbo mach sure you have a brass 360° thrust bearing fitted as this will increase reliability on end.
Somthing you may find interesting
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0405tur_turbotech/
[Edited on 27/3/06 by atomic]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 27/3/06 at 06:59 PM |
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yeah , and those ceramic turbines are very fragile also - i wouldnt use one .
youll only need a 360 thrust washer for over 1 bar of boost .
i think the small T2 turbos will be about right for the twin setup , bearing in mind , its hard to upgrade those , t25 maybe the best bet .
was gonna have a look at the noble engine - i was out all day delivering stuff .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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