stevebubs
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| posted on 27/4/06 at 11:47 PM |
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FAO Ned
WTF? Who tried using a T9 as a reverse box? Or you just acting the fool (to quote Mr T)?
Oh - and whose Fury?
 
fury reverse box 2
[Edited on 27/4/06 by stevebubs]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 05:50 AM |
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 what
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 06:12 AM |
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A friend of mine is building it. Got the engine running at the weekend once i got there and told himto bypass the side stand switch.
It a hyabusa and this is his experiment to see if you can run the old 4 speed box backwards in an attempt at a locost reversing box and also to drop
the gear ratio to the rear axle.
Its currently mounted on some rubbers but twisted horribly on them when we tried to take it down the road. In the process of being modified, probably
so the box is solidly mounted.
Ned.
ps before anyone shoots me down i would reiterate its not mine and I'm not very convinced it'll work and have told the owner as much but
interested to see how he progresses with it!
[Edited on 28/4/06 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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tks
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 07:40 AM |
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Hyabusa!!
180Bhp and 10.500 revs..
ok lets say in 6 5500 revs as output..
in a old 4 speed box
First of all its 30Kgs more!
and second it won“t be up to the job..
that box is made for torque not for revs..
i give it 100miles if it works..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:20 AM |
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I think to get the gearing right he was going to run it in 3rd. I told him he'd be better running it in 4th as 4th is a 1:1 ratio so in my mind
should be stronger and changing the dif ratio but hey ho.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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stevebubs
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tks
180Bhp and 10.500 revs..
ok lets say in 6 5500 revs as output..
in a old 4 speed box
First of all its 30Kgs more!
and second it won“t be up to the job..
that box is made for torque not for revs..
i give it 100miles if it works..
Tks
don't forget BECs have a final reduction gear as well as a main gearbox.
Revs at the gearbox will be the same whether BEC or CEC....it's directly related to the speed of the rear wheels.
What concerns me more is it's back to front so the loading on the box in normal operation is all wrong.
Ned - IIRC Tim Pell originally used a Rover gearbox in the first ZZR Genesis. This had all gears removed except 4th and reverse. Theorish is kinda
sound but it's heavy....
I would also be concerned about the angle of the UJs between box and diff - looks quite acute from the picture.
Stephen
PS If he could afford a Busa, then I'm flabbergasted he didn't buy a proper box from someone. They're supposedly quite reliable now.
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:45 AM |
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Stephen,
I agree - he spent several hundred on uprated bits for the engine from extreme engines iirc. the reverse box with a drop gear was about £12-1500 i
think he said.
He bought the car which was an ex-crossflow car without the engine and bought a bike from a salvage place so hes only spent about 6k on it afaik.
he's only doing it as a winter project for a bit of fun. its already registered so will only need an mot - no sva to worry about.
he's openly said that he doesn't know how long the box''ll last running backwards he'll just wait and find out!
beware, I've got yellow skin
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iank
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:46 AM |
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Having 30 forward gears and 6 for reverse will keep him busy 
Running the box backwards could be a big problem, as IIRC the gear teeth are profiled so are unlikely to be happy running backwards for long
periods.
edit: just saw he knows about the problem. so long as he's going into it with his eyes open he should be ok (so long as it doesn't seize
and do damage to the engine/him)
[Edited on 28/4/06 by iank]
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:49 AM |
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seeing as its a 4 speed box i can only work out him having 24 forward gears. he'll probably only use 12 of them though. running in 3rd for
normal/any high speed/motorway driving and drop it down to super close ratio for very twisty blats 
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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iank
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
seeing as its a 4 speed box i can only work out him having 24 forward gears. he'll probably only use 12 of them though. running in 3rd for
normal/any high speed/motorway driving and drop it down to super close ratio for very twisty blats
Ned.
Heh heh, just showing my ignorence of T9 being 4 speed.
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 08:54 AM |
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no, you're not ignorant - just wrong
its not a type 9 but a 4 speed predecessor which shares the same casing but has a different (shorter) tailing housing. prob out of an early escort or
cortina or similar.
Ned.
ps think its a type e:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_typeE.html
or a type 2, can't remember whether it was removable or whether he cut the bellhousing off:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_type2.html
[Edited on 28/4/06 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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iank
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 10:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
no, you're not ignorant - just wrong
its not a type 9 but a 4 speed predecessor which shares the same casing but has a different (shorter) tailing housing. prob out of an early escort or
cortina or similar.
Ned.
ps think its a type e:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_typeE.html
or a type 2, can't remember whether it was removable or whether he cut the bellhousing off:
https://www.burtonpower.com/technical/tt_type2.html
[Edited on 28/4/06 by ned]
Ahhahahaha, the first post said T9, that explains everything Still won't be happy running the wrong way methinks.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 11:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
Stephen,
I agree - he spent several hundred on uprated bits for the engine from extreme engines iirc. the reverse box with a drop gear was about £12-1500 i
think he said.
He bought the car which was an ex-crossflow car without the engine and bought a bike from a salvage place so hes only spent about 6k on it afaik.
he's only doing it as a winter project for a bit of fun. its already registered so will only need an mot - no sva to worry about.
he's openly said that he doesn't know how long the box''ll last running backwards he'll just wait and find out!
What gets me is there doesn't seem to be anything (with the exception of locating the gear level somewhere sensible) preventing him from running
it the "right way", though...
[Edited on 28/4/06 by stevebubs]
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
quote:
What gets me is there doesn't seem to be anything (with the exception of locating the gear level somewhere sensible) preventing him from running
it the "right way", though...
Its the step down in gearing that he want which is why he's running it backwards when running it in third gear.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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stevebubs
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:21 PM |
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OK...so surely easier to stick a T9 in the right way round, and use 5th?
[Edited on 28/4/06 by stevebubs]
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gazza285
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:28 PM |
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If he runs it that way round 3rd will be a step up gear, also reverse will be a very high gear as one turn of the output end will be (what is the
ratio?) about three at the input. If you can slip the clutch enough it should do about 300mph backwards. A rethink is needed here.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:33 PM |
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he just used the 4 speed box as that's what he had lying about.
don't know too much about the gearing but I have seen the car move forwards and backwards under its own steam and didn't need massive
amounts of clutch slip as far as i could tell.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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gazza285
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:37 PM |
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Think about it, reverse is what, about 3:1. As in three turns of the input is one out of the back. Reverse the box and one turn of the output is three
at the input. The prop at the back is now doing three times the speed of the prop at the engine.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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Peteff
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 12:39 PM |
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3rd will be a step up gear
That was my grasp of it as well if he runs it backwards. It took my brain a while to come round to it though.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 01:01 PM |
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Well it works as he's worked it all out and it has been driven a short distance so can't be that far out.
he would have used it the right way round in 5th but as its only a 4 speed box turned it round and is using it in 3rd which gives a similar effect.
5th would be 1:0.87 and 3rd is around 1:1.2 or 1.3which inverted is 0.76 or 0.83 which lowers the ratio to the rear axle.
Ned.
[Edited on 28/4/06 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Liam
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 01:24 PM |
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Ratios should work out fine, although reverse should be good for at least 100mph  . Good job the busa's torquey. The gearbox wont be oversped
thanks to the bikes primary reduction - will just be interesting how long it takes the busa to tear it to bits running it backwards at 180bhp!!
A five speed the correct way round would be a much better idea, and would give a sensible reverse with the bike engine in 4th or so. Still, a reverse
box would be even better, and if he can afford the busa in the first place...
Liam
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gazza285
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 01:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
which lowers the ratio to the rear axle.
It highers the ratio to the rear axle if the box is reversed.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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James
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 01:59 PM |
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Surely must be lighter, easier (maybe cheaper) to rig up a starter motor to drive it backwards?
Ah well, good to see the spirit of innovation is still there!
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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ned
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| posted on 28/4/06 at 09:20 PM |
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well i can say first hand that it works. a quick blat down the road with no tunnel cover, bonnet or seats or belts and it is dangerously fast. I think
the tyres need up sizing from teh 185's that it had with the crossflow but it wheelspan in every gear we could find and it was a job for my mate
to keep it in a straight line. well inpressed
beware, I've got yellow skin
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