DarrenW
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 12:30 PM |
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Any Toyota experts
Iam asking this for my Dad.
Bike engines ahve already been looked into and not ruled out so this for car engines please.
He has an early MK locost chassis car. They are not overly generous in the engine bay height department. There is a x-flow in there right now. We have
been looking at engine conversion options. Zetec and red top etc being the usual suspects. It would appear that the height restriction is a limiting
factor. The aim is for a reliable 160ish BHP and loads of fun with possible future upgrades.
OK - admission no. 1 - i know nowt about Toyota engines.
Does anyone know the dimensions of the 4A-GE from bottom of sump to top of rocker cover and to top of injection plenum (assuming they have one etc
etc).
Any good links to sites that show what is needed to fit them into a little 7?? and later how to tune them easily for a bit more power (i dont mean
steel this that and the other, just like cams, porting, fuelling etc).
I guess the other question to ask is;
Any other Toyota engines the same size as the 4A-GE but bigger capacity / power / budgets?
Other makes of engine that are mainstream, not mega bucks and similar dimensions to a x-flow??
If the conversion comes off there may be a complete 1700 crossflow package coming up for sale. Do a search for darrensdad if you need some details.
Thanks in advance,
Darren.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 12:34 PM |
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XE and zetec will go under low bodywork, just compromises ground clearance a tad, but no more than a BEC with low bodywork (bike engines are tall too
with the carbs on! )
My XE is fitted under the Stuart Taylor bodywork with no bulge and that is caterham height i.e. lower than any other locost.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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graememk
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 12:42 PM |
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wouldnt a rover k be a better engine for height ?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 12:43 PM |
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Can't help with dimensions, but I have seen a 4-AGE engine in a Locost - it's a very compact package, comparable with the x-flow.
If you want some pictures, have a look at Rob Lane's web pages - there are several there showing his 4-AGE
installation.
cheers,
David
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bilbo
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 01:04 PM |
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Not sure if it's entirely accurate, but this site has all the dimensions of the popular engine choices:
http://westfield-world.com/enginespecs_car.html
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 01:20 PM |
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Got this T shirt..
Hi
Converted a crossflow powered Striker to 4age power.
Using a shallow sump (Raw item) the height from bottom of sump to top is within half of nothing of a crossflow. I went for a bonnet bulge and a bit
more ground clearance with mine though...
4age's come in various forms, but a latter (Phase3) stock engine, with a mild set of cams in it generates around the 165 bhp mark on Twin
40's - or certainly that's what i'm getting.
(Or go for a completly standard late model corolla GTi as this comes with TB's and produces 150 straight out of the box.)
Other positives are that the exhausts on the right side.
It easliy mates up to a Type 9 box.
It sounds fantastic..
And doesn't look too shabby either..
Downsides are that the plumbing's is a bit messy
So far its been the best thing we've ever done to it, great little engine.
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Humbug
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 02:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
wouldnt a rover k be a better engine for height ?
It would depend on whther you are ditching the inlet manifolds or not... I kept the original manifold, fuelling, ECU etc. and had to put a small bulge
on my Stuart Taylor bonnet, and that was after raising the nose and the front of the bonnet by about 1.5". I wanted to maintain decent sump
clearance and, as mentioned, the ST bodywork is fairly low, so maybe an Indy bonnet and slightly less ground clearance would work.
Mine is a 1.4 with 104bhp, but I beleive all the Ks are the same external dimensions so you could get some quite handy power out of a fairly light
engine (1.8 VVC?), possibly at the cost of head gasket fragility.
Another engine I have read about - light, good on power, fairly modern - is the Ford Zetec SE (Puma etc.). Not sure of height, though
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 03:11 PM |
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Toyota 4E-FTE. 1.3L, 135bhp stock, easily tuned to 180bhp with stock components. Needs a bellhousing to match a RWD G/Box. Extremely good torquey
engine, more compact than the 4A-GE.
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ned
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 03:13 PM |
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I believe the zetec se (yamaha derived 1.6 as in fiesta, focus, puma) is about the same size as a 4age and is an ally block. bellhousings are
available from shawspeed, westfield and quantum.
loads of goods available from shawspeed to get it upto 220bhp+ if your pockets are big enough. cams and throttle bodies is around 170bhp iirc, of
course the bike carbs/bodies and megawotsit are the locost route..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 03:30 PM |
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Ill stick some links here for when he reads later (im not answering my own questions....honest!).
http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock.htm
http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/Pros%20and%20Cons%20of%204A-GE.htm
http://www.4age.co.uk/spec/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8422/4age.htm
http://www.rawengineering.co.uk/RAW_engines.html
Are the larger capacity Toyota engines physically much bigger?
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thomas4age
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| posted on 24/11/06 at 10:06 PM |
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if it fits a striker it'll fit probably any seven, as the striker is the smallest.
I had both 16v and 20v engines in there without problems, exept for the intake manifold on the 16v, that was cut and shut to get the hight line at the
same level as the valve covers.
that modified plenum is for sale btw but located in holland lets you use the stock injection and has the filter facing forward (ae86 style)
If I have the time I'll do a measurment job tommorow on both the 16v and 20v engines.
grtz t
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 01:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
I believe the zetec se (yamaha derived 1.6 as in fiesta, focus, puma) is about the same size as a 4age and is an ally block. bellhousings are
available from shawspeed, westfield and quantum.
If this is a replacement engine
remember the Zetec SE has inlet and exhaust on opposite sides compared to most engines (except the good old Pinto!).
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 25/11/06 at 03:07 AM |
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From my experience if you want a compact, reliable engine to bolt in then go for the 20V. Especially the "blacktop" version which comes with
lighter internals and average about 150BHP.
If you want an engine you might want to continually upgrade then go with the 16V 4AGE as the parts are more readily available and usually cheaper.
Saying that I'm currently modifying a "silvertop" 20V engine and will probably have some dyno figures in the next few weeks.
I originally installed a stock 16V 4AGE in my Striker as it was easy to get through the SVA and MOT. Later I installed a 20V 4AGE to get a 30BHP power
increase but the car was transformed due tot he smoothness and response of the "blacktop" engine!
The thing I like about the 20V is the neater cooling pipe arrangement. All the pipes connect at the back of the head. So nothing neads to run across
the engine bay as you can see in the picture below.
 
Original engine bay layout - front
[Edited on 25/11/06 by bimbleuk]
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