trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 10:26 AM |
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Clutch release bearing possibilites
Hello,
Sorry to bother you all with clutch release bearings but i have not been able to find a definate answer, i have a saab gearbox that will bolt up to a
zetec, and the standard clutch cover and clutch plate can be used, however the clutch release bearing is a saab flat face one
what i want to know is the clutch cover on a 1800 XR3i zetec compatable with a flat face? i would check myself but i am nowhere near my car, if not
can my saab gearbox be modified to fit a saab 900 slave cylinder? i have seen it done on type 9 but i am not sure where it would bolt to in the
bellhousing on this gearbox, there is a pic below of the gearbox, it has no release bearing fitted but it is opeated by the arm in the left hand side
of the bell housing. hope i can get a definate answer!
many thanks
 
Rescued attachment gearbox.JPG
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 10:28 AM |
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oh and here is a pic of the release bearing, i also saw that someone had made an insert to fit to his flat faced bearing to make it a round faced one,
is that posible with this bearing?
many thanks
 
Rescued attachment 40-137.jpg
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 10:37 AM |
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what's the diameter of the sleeve that the bearing slides along?
just thinking aloud, you could get a saab 900 release bearing and machine a "top hat" in bronze to mount it on that replicates the front
of the saab clutch slave cyl, with the right internal dia. to slide on the release bearing sleeve of your current gearbox. It would be a dead easy
turning job as long as there is enough of a difference between the sleeve od and the 900 bearing ID.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 10:43 AM |
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I am not sure what you mean by sleeve, the bearing sits over the input shaft , the two mounting points on the outer case mount to the two arms that
are above and below the input shaft which is moved by the slave cylinder mounted outside the gearbox by moving a pushrod
to be honest its abit of a strange way of doing it, if i can fit the saab 900 slave cylinder i think i would
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:09 AM |
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but what does the bearing ride on. They normally ride on a sleeve over the inout shaft, even on setups like yours, otherwise the bearing tends to tip
when not pressed up against the clutch
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:21 AM |
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erm, thats a good question, on the car i have when i took the original engine out there was the bearing in the second photo over the shaft its sat 90
degrees to how u see it, and the fixed to the two arms that are fixed to the shaft to the left of the bell housing which is rotated by a pushrod fixed
to the slave cylinder, the bearing is free to rotate about its vertical axis.
Thats it as far as i could see, there is not much else to it! I wish i had taken photos of this when i had the engine out!
[Edited on 18/1/07 by trogdor]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:28 AM |
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thats it exactly, because the bearing is free to rotate on those two pins, they "normally" have a sleeve to keep them pointing at the
clutch, otherwise it would be tricky getting the bellhousing and engine bolted together without everything getting in a mess!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:30 AM |
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here is what i am talking about quickly annotated i wish i had a better photo...
 
Rescued attachment anno.jpg
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:32 AM |
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well when i put the engine and gearbox back together i didn't have anything stopping it rotating and it all went back together ok, that said i
haven't driven it since then.
hmmmm i guess the saab 900 slave is prob the way forward, as far as i can see there is no trumpet to replace allowing me to fit the cylinder, are
there any other ways that to do it?
EDIT have posted on a saab 96 forum to see if that is normal for the release bearing in the saab, i have a suspicion it is but you never know
[Edited on 18/1/07 by trogdor]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:41 AM |
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hmmmm looks tricky to do on the cheap, instinct says machine an ally ring big enough to mount the slave onto, hack the back of it to sit on the
profiles in the back of the bellhousing and keep the front flat to the clutch, then get it tig welded into the bellhousing and bolt the slave to it.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 11:47 AM |
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that sounds pretty involved and i didn't really want to have to take the gearbox out! at least until i break it! is it a real prob if you use a
flat faced bearing with a zetec clutch cover?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:03 PM |
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as a quick and dirty bodge, you could run a grinder carefully round the edge of the end of the clutch springs and round the edge of the bearing.
It won't last ages but it'll stop them eating each other
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:23 PM |
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i might go with that since the gearbox will need rebuilding or replacing with a different model at some point since it isn't really designed to
take that much power and torque, when i get it rebuilt i could get them to modify it to fit the saab 900 slave cylinder.
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 12:53 PM |
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so the kind of slave cylinder i should be using is the one in the photo? from a saab 900 pre 1993 model, i just need to find a way of mounting it in
the bellhousing is the reach of these cylinders adjustable? as i have no idea how far the release bearing needs to travel.
 
Rescued attachment 51-2209.jpg
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:23 PM |
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have found on ebay a clutch release bearing suitable for a escort which is where my zetec comes from, i think i may be able modify this to fit the
pivot arms on my saab gearbox, possibly anyway
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280068685405#ebayphotohosting
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by trogdor
so the kind of slave cylinder i should be using is the one in the photo? from a saab 900 pre 1993 model, i just need to find a way of mounting it in
the bellhousing is the reach of these cylinders adjustable? as i have no idea how far the release bearing needs to travel.
Yep that's the cyl to go for. There are several others but that is the cheapest, which is the most important bit!!!!!!!
If I was behaving myself, I should have stroke dimensions etc in my magic car "fag packet design" book where I write all the important
stuff, i'll have a look.
here you go as a starter for ten, we're not the only copycats, AP Racing do the same so here's a drawing courtesy of them:
slave cyl pdf
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:45 PM |
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oooh that is useful, ta very much!
18mm stroke seems like not alot is that normal? am thinking of how to mount this in my bellhousing, is a shame i don't have a trumpet! what
kinda stress is the slave cylinder subject too?ie how much torque is the mounting subject too?
guess it depends how heavy you are with the clutch?
[Edited on 18/1/07 by trogdor]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:54 PM |
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18mm is plenty, it only takes about 5mm to disengage a clutch fully. (but you want about 5mm clearance between fully compressed cyl with bearing
attached and new clutch springs to allow for clutch wear)
there is little or no torque on the mounting, the release bearing is there for a reason, it spins!!
The only real force on it is compression. The slave is just held by 3 m6 bolts.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 01:57 PM |
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Here you go, big alloy lump is the spacer I machined up, which bolts to the front of the gearbox, trumpet is machined off basically.
slave bolts to 3 m6 threads cut in spacer:
 
cr1
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:01 PM |
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well i am just wondering if i could fix it in some way that didn't involve bolts etc
you can get adeshives that are really strong nowadays, do you think i could expoy it into place and that would last?
not sure if it would stand vibrations etc tho
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:23 PM |
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just thinking about it somemore, man i should be revising!
if i use a proper adeshive to glue the spacer the the bellhousing and then bolted the slave cylinder to that, would that be strong enough to
survive?
maybe something like this?
Repair metal components - EPOXY METAL PASTE - any metal - filler/adhesive - (withstands high temperatures, can be machined)
[Edited on 18/1/07 by trogdor]
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macnab
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:28 PM |
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Adhesives? Don’t like the sound of that at all. If you are worried about swarf getting inside the gearbox or having to go to the bother of dismantling
it, then just determine the thickness of the casing and drill and tap blind holes.
Then just fit long studs that reach through the spacer block.
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macnab
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:30 PM |
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I'm thinking off piece of tube over drill bit to set the depth & a flat bottom milling cutter to flatten the bottom of the hole once the
ordinary drill bit had been used
[Edited on 18/1/07 by macnab]
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trogdor
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:38 PM |
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yeah that is another possibilty, what would be the miniium sort of depth the holes would have to be? doubt its the casing is that thick!
oh and what is a flat bottom milling cutter?
[Edited on 18/1/07 by trogdor]
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macnab
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| posted on 18/1/07 at 02:51 PM |
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I'd expect the casing to be around 10mm there.
Cutter I mean is the end mill, one on the right.
 
Rescued attachment end_mill_types_1.gif
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