bimbleuk
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 03:05 PM |
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Rotrex 4AGE 20V update
Finally got the engine back together after a few delays on parts from a couple of local engineering companies 
I think I'm now happy with the bracketry and belt runs. So I'm planning on bolting the engine back in the chassis on Sunday. Then I'll
sort the cooling and oiling revisions and maybe, but unlikely on the current map, start the engine without the Rotrex turning (I can use a short to
belt to bypass it).
Plan is to get it back to the tuning garage, get it mapped NA. Then drive it up to RAW Engineering so they can make the manifold and intercooler
piping. They're interested in doing a kit based on this install. Ultimately the bracketry can tidied and CNC'd for a better finish.
Having spoken to OMEX (who are also wanting to get involved in a kit) I've decided to stick with a completetly stock bottom end and stay at
10.5:1 compression to start with.
 
Rotrex brackets - front left
 
Rotrex mounted - front
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stevec
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 03:13 PM |
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Very nice looking engine,
I would be a little worried about the amount of belt around the water pump though.
Steve.
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RazMan
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 03:15 PM |
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Looking really neat and tidy 
Out of interest, can I see two idler wheels on the blower belt?
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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SeaBass
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 03:51 PM |
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Nice work.
How much boost are you going to run with 10.5 CR?
Do you need to intercool the charge or is this unnecessary with the Rotrex?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 05:09 PM |
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Thanks for your interest.
The lower left metal pulley is the adjuster for the Rotrex/WP belt. Initially I didn't have the small plastic upper pulley but adding this one
meant the water pump had as much belt wrap as before the Rotrex. The alternator used to be where the Rotrex is.
I was aiming for 10PSI max on this initial install which was deemed OK from OMEX's supercharging Honda engine with 11.3:1 CR and 1 bar of
boost.
The Rotrex is an internal compression SC so ideally needs an intercooler by default.
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bike_power
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| posted on 16/2/07 at 11:47 PM |
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Looks very good, I'm using a C30-94 on a Hayabusa engine.
Have you checked the sc pulley, there was a batch of them that didn't fit properly so as you tightened the retaining bolt it pulled the bearing
tight and within a few hours running the sc would need a new bearing. Just check to make sure the pulley sits back against the mounting face. Rotrex
will swap pulleys foc.
Which model Rotrex have you got there ? They are so efficient and the amount of heat they generate compared to a turbo is quite low.
I'm running 9:1 static compression with 1 bar boost, looking for around 300ish bhp, remember mine is only 1299cc 
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 17/2/07 at 06:07 AM |
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Bikey,
Thanks for the warning I'll check it later.
I've also got the C30-94 which seems to be the defualt option for a lot of installs. Though saying that I still would have thought you'd
want one spinning to 120,000 RPM on a bike engine? The reason I was told to use the c30-94 was it moves more air at lower RPM and to limit the top end
with a restrictor if necessary.
I'm certainly interested in your Hayabusa install as I'm helping my neighbour fit a 1400cc Hayabusa in to a Radical today. I'm sure
he'll get bored of the new power upgrade by the end of the race season 
Oh any I'm looking for a more conservative 225BHP on 10PSI from 1587cc
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thomas4age
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| posted on 19/2/07 at 03:45 PM |
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Hey Blimbl,
You go baby!!!
Hope you're rods will keep up with 1 bar at 7800rpm though.
keep us updated!
regards Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/2/07 at 05:23 PM |
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rods main weakness is surely in tension and as long as you aren't revving any harder then that makes no difference.
I'm assuming you won't bend em at 1bar!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 20/2/07 at 08:42 AM |
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No problem with the rods. They are the same as the GZE (factory supercharged engine) rods and the max boost is only briefly at max RPM anyway.
The cast pistons are more likely to be the weak point but I've got a very capable OMEX 710 ECU.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 21/2/07 at 06:42 PM |
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Hey Blimble
talking about the 710, do you know wether it can handle 8 ignition coil outputs?
I''m planning a V8 SC and want to run COP ignition but not in wastespark so I need 8 sequential ignition outputs.
Keep us posted on the 20v, Ross makes nice 20v silvertop pistons btw contact paradise racing about those, should the factory items fail.
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 22/2/07 at 11:27 AM |
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I believe it will handle 6 COP feeds but the unit is being upgraded all the time. So best thing would be to contact Andrew at OMEX directly.
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rav
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| posted on 22/2/07 at 02:19 PM |
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Just been checkin out the Rotrex site - they're sick - I want one!
How many much dosh are we talking for a C30-84?
Anyone had any problems with them?
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bike_power
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| posted on 22/2/07 at 09:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rav
Just been checkin out the Rotrex site - they're sick - I want one!
How many much dosh are we talking for a C30-84?
Anyone had any problems with them?
They vary in price depending on who you buy them from, try looking in the USA if you want a good price, or TTS at Silverstone.
They are reliable, quiet, the compressor is very efficient (more so than most turbos) and they take a relatively small amount of power to run compared
to traditional screw type chargers. (They still take power, which a turbo doesn't, but it's usually only 20-30 bhp)
Early ones had gearbox problems but that was resolved, a small batch of pulleys were faulty but that was last year. They are basically a pulley
attached to a small constant mesh step up gear system which then drives the compressor side of a turbo - not much to go wrong really.
They need their own oil supply - buy a small (400ml or so) ali header tank (TTS sell a really nice extruded, anodised one) and an oil cooler to keep
the oil to below absolute max of 80C. Use the official traction fluid.
Koenigsegg use them in their cars, two of them, seems to do the job
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thomas4age
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| posted on 23/2/07 at 12:44 PM |
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TTS quoted 1150 pounds for a C38-71, but tha smaller C30 series aren't that much cheaper, so around that price would be it. which in my mind is
to expensive, but hey it's stat of the art and that comes at a price.
where in the states can I find these cheaper Blimble?
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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bike_power
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| posted on 23/2/07 at 08:14 PM |
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Keep googling until you find them, try here http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/pc-28-64-c30-94-head-unit-250-400-hp.aspx
What TTS sell for that price is the kit I believe, which includes the ali header tank and a filter and some traction fluid as shown in the link. You
might need to add an oil cooler to that depending on application.
It's worth buying it from TTS if you've not used one before because Richard has been installing them on bikes (busa, GSXR1000 etc) and
cars (Civic Type R, Mercedes etc) for a few years now and can help with anything you need.
His Civics make 300bhp at the wheels and that's a drive in-drive out price of about £5k I believe. He's also got a demo Civic with
350bhp.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 25/2/07 at 07:17 AM |
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I probably paid a little over the odds for mine at £1400 inclusive but I did get the hoses, filter, header tank, universal bracket and Rotrex unit for
that.
Yes TTS probably have the most experience here in the UK and when I contacted Rotrex direct they pointed me to them. There is also GMC Motorsport so I
would get quotes from both and haggle.
OMEX are likely to be suppliers soon as well and my installation will probably be used as a base for a 4AGE kit.
Until I see figures on a known rolling road I'll reserve my comments on some of the quoted power figures
[Edited on 25/2/07 by bimbleuk]
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Jos Fury
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| posted on 25/2/07 at 10:10 AM |
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interesting topic. using a 4 age (16v only though) here.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 25/2/07 at 02:46 PM |
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I know about TTS's experience with this piece of kit,
I had a phonecall with the dutch representative for roulunds rotrex over here, even he pointed me directly to TTS. Indeed you buy the complete head
unit kit from TTS, but I won't use other parts then what they provide in a set up like this.
anyway I don't say it's to expensive because you get what you've payed for, state of the Art engineering, it's just to
expensive for me! so I'll look up a different way to get that power for a cheaper price.
Hey Jos, a bigport would probably do better on peak power that a 20v using this charger, just upgrade to 20v forst then see what you want. peak power
of a stock 20v and tuned 16v might be the same, But it's the way the power (torque) comes out, 20v is heaps faster then 16v on the road. on
track....? I don't know.
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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Jos Fury
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| posted on 25/2/07 at 04:18 PM |
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Dear Thomas. Not looking for an upgrade, just interested in the thread. my small port is running fine. thanks anyway !
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