Colin AH
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 posted on 27/5/02 at 10:37 PM |
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Peugeot Doner
I bought the book and now I want to build the car. Can anyone tell me if it is feasable to use a Peugeot 405 Mi16 4x4 as a doner? Has anyone done this
before? Am I just being a looney?
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Liam
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| posted on 27/5/02 at 11:47 PM |
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Woah!! There's a 4WD 405 MI16?
...hasty internet research...
Damn, there is. Looks awesome, especially the T16! I want one as my road car.
Anyway, couldn't find out for sure, but being a FWD car as standard, wouldn't it have a transverse engine? If so, you definately wont be able to
shove that running gear in a Locost chassis as it is.
If you want to make a 4WD Locost (like me and a couple of others are doing), then I'm pretty sure the Ford Sierra/Cosworth 4x4 running gear is the
only stuff suitable (short of sending Quaiffe a blank cheque). I did a fair bit of research on that whilst planning my build.
If you are thinking of a standard RWD Locost, then the 405 4x4 gearbox will almost certainly be unsuitable. Good engine though, and the rear
diff/driveshafts may well be suitable for an IRS chassis - very unique too.
Hope that helps,
Liam
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ChrisW
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 11:08 AM |
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quote:
Woah!! There's a 4WD 405 MI16?
That was my reaction aswell! 
All the Mi16's I've seen have been transverse (we put one in a Pug 205) but there's no reason why you couldn't use a RWD gearbox on it and mount
it the other way around. Question is which gearbox will mate up. Of course, assuming it's not physically too big, there's no reason why you can't
use the 405's 4WD system to built a 4WD Locost and even if you go RWD the rear running gear will probably be usable.
Chris
My gaff my rules
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Colin AH
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 posted on 28/5/02 at 11:57 AM |
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Thanks for your help guys, I am a bit of a Peugeot fan, I have had a 504, 305, 7 405s three Mi16 all 4wd and a 405 Le Mans, and I currently have two
406s. I know where I can get a Mi16 for free and being Scottish it just seems like a waste to turn it down. I'll give the 4wd build a go and see what
happens, if it goes wrong at worst I can build a new chassis for a Ford engine.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 12:00 PM |
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http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/uk/auction/66656177
Nice example.
Also someone on here said that the Mi16 will bolt up to a SD1 gearbox using a LDV Pilot van bellhousing...
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Liam
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 12:14 PM |
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quote:
Of course, assuming it's not physically too big, there's no reason why you can't use the 405's 4WD system to built a 4WD Locost and
Actually there is...
If the 405 is transverse-engined, then the gearbox, centre and front diffs will most likely be one integral unit that sits behind the engine. To make
a 4WD Locost, you need to be able to mount the front diff separately in front of the engine. This would be very hard to do with a transverse mounted
4x4 gearbox with integral front diff without a lot of butchery.
Even most longitudinal-engined 4x4 systems (Audi, Subaru...) are unsuitable because the front diff is an integral part of the gearbox and sits behind
the engine.
Only the Ford/Cosworth 4x4 running gear has a separate front diff which can be moved in front of the engine by extending the front propshaft. Or like
I said, I'm sure Quaiffe could knock you something up.
Of course if you are very adveturous you could put something together yourself with a mish-mash of bits. I was originally planning to build a
mid-engined 4x4 sports car by mounting a FWD-transverse engine plus gearbox longitudinally, using the diff as the centre diff of a 4x4 system, then
propshafts sent front and rear.
But you need a very strong FWD LSD in your transverse gearbox, and then you need to find 1:1 diffs for the front and rear. And after all that you are
stuck with 50-50 front rear torque split - Ford is 66/33 rear biassed.
Liam
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Liam
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 12:21 PM |
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Ooh missed a couple of posts whilst typing that last one.
Colin, I'm very interested to know any details of the Pug 405 4x4 running gear.
Is it full time (ie centre, front and rear diffs), or is it one of those part time systems that is FWD until the front wheels spin, then a viscous
coupling sends power to the rear wheels - like Cavalier 4x4 and Audi A3 Quattro (not a propper Quattro - doesn't deserve the badge), and some
others?
Liam
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UncleFista
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 03:42 PM |
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The Mi16 suspension uses Citroen hydraulic suspension, hence the "adjustable" ride height 
Running gear spec here http://www.peugeotclub.org/peugeot/archive/405/2001/Jan/0003.html
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Colin AH
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 04:15 PM |
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It's only the T16 that uses the adjustable suspension. The Mi16 is self levelling but not hydraulic.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 28/5/02 at 06:08 PM |
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I stand corrected
I was under the (misguided) impression that the Mi16 4x4 used the Cit gear too.
Sorry to have mislead...
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Colin AH
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 08:09 PM |
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Hi
Sorry to take so long to reply, I work away and only get home at the weekends.
The Mi16 is a constant 4wd, produces around 160 bhp in an untuned state and will scare some sports cars. The engine is tall about the same as a dohc
Sierra although it is a lot lighter.
I have decided to use the Mi16 engine matched to a Ford gearbox and diff etc any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I also have access to a H
reg 2.0i Granada, is this the same running gear as a Sierra? Or am I being stupid again?
Cheers
Colin
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Liam
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 08:31 PM |
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Hi there Colin - no probs.
Right i see - the Mi16 should make a great engine choice for a locost. If you're lucky, there will already be a kit to fit the Mi16 to a RWD ford
gearbox (I think this engine is reasonably popular in the kit car world ??). If not you'll have to make an adaptor plate (like I'm doing) or modify
the ford bellhousing.
Yup the Granny running gear is the same as the sierra running gear - even the same track width. Only difference is the granada has 5-stud hubs. You
can find some 4-stud sierra hubs and use those, or just use the 5-studs I s'pose.
If you are thinking of big power though, it may be worth seeking out a diff from a 4x4 sierra/scorpio or a cosworth, as they are LSDs.
Hope that helps
Liam
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Colin AH
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 09:09 PM |
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Cheers Liam
As you will have probably guessed I am not really car minded, motorbikes are my forte, I know nothing about chassis or suspension etc. So I hope you
will be using this site for another year or so. One more question, you wouldn't happen to know where I could get hold of a set of cad files for the
Locost chassis? I will need to lengthen it and wided it by lord knows how much.
Cheers and thanks
Colin
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 09:22 PM |
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can i put 2pence worth in ?..........
if ya in to bikes "put a bike engine in" you will find it easier, lighter, oh and just a tad faster.....
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Liam
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 09:54 PM |
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Lol - you'd have the lot of us using bike engines...
Personally I prefer the feeling of a wall of brutish torque, as offered by a largeish capacity car engine. And nothing beats the sound of a strong V6
singing.
Having said that, driving my mates bike engined locost before he sold it was an incredible experience. 12000 rpm is a pretty special sound in
anyone's book - even if it's produced by a paltry 4 cylinders . It didn't feel so strong at high speeds though.
Each to his own...
Liam
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 10:00 PM |
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spot on M8, just got back from yorks meet, 7 cars there i think,
1x rover V8
1x blade
1x pinto
rest crossflow......but all loved by there proud owners.......long live the Locost.
Actually it was mentioned tonight, all the cars there where home built, all used the same book, no two looked the same
the moral .....do ya own thing
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lloyd57
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| posted on 15/6/02 at 09:14 PM |
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Try looking around the HotRod world for a bell housing to fit Peugeot to Ford gearbox.
There was a guy a couple of years ago making them as Peugeot engines became popular in hot rods.Take a look at a few back issues of cars and car
conversions, was in there.
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Glenn
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| posted on 17/6/02 at 03:32 PM |
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I am also building a locost and am planning to use a MI16 engine i have a BMW gearbox, diff, etc, but dident fancey using the straight 6 (far to
heavy) im actually trying
to find the dimensions of the MI16 (early ali block type) and dimensions of the output end so i can see if the BMW gearbox will fit with an adaptor
plate. Cna you help?
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 17/6/02 at 04:03 PM |
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Liam
The Mi16 is about as popular as stinging nettle keks in the kit car world.
If you are desparate to use it (and it sounds like a good engine) use the heavyweight Rover LT77 and a Diesel LDV200/Pilot bellhousing.
Kinda spoils things with that heavy gearbox though. As for a kit for a Ford box though, not a chance. I've been looking since Flowtech disappeared
off the map
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Colin AH
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| posted on 17/6/02 at 09:40 PM |
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Thanks for the info Dave, whats to stop me making a adaptor plate to fit the MT75 gearbox? If I was to make a plate or use a Rover gearbox what about
the input/lay shaft will this fit the Mi16 engine. (Seriously showing my lack of car knowledge)
Glen, keep in touch, I have my Mi16 stored about 50 miles from the house but I will try and measure the engine dimensions for you.
Cheers
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 18/6/02 at 06:38 PM |
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You can make an adaptor plate to fit the MT75 if you want, there's nothing stopping you. It's not the hardest thing in the world, but the real
problem is with adding someting to the length of the bellhousing, you run a real risk (in fact you WILL) of not having enough length in the first
motion shaft to plug into a clutch. Clutches can usually be fathome out by using the release bearing from a Ford (if you use a Ford box) a Peugeot
cover, and a Ford plate.
A quick peruse of the Quinton Hazel online catalogue will tell you how many splines the Ford box has (usually 23 these days), and how big the cover is
on the Pug, so you can mix and match yourself a clutch kit to fit.
If you use the Rover box, you won't have any problem at all, as the LDV van that you will be liberating the bellhousing off to mate the engine up to
the Rover box has the same bottom end. A clutch is off the shelf at your local LDV dealer, or at Halfords. 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Colin AH
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| posted on 18/6/02 at 07:44 PM |
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Thanks Dave, I actually understood all that which is no mean feat. Perhaps I am going about this all the wrong way. The Mi16 I have is a 4X4 with IRS.
Is there anything (here I go again) to stop me junking the front diff and the transfer box and running the prop shaft straight to the rear diff, thus
keeping the existing Peugeot gearbox and clutch? Am I being a loony again or does this sound feasible? I am off to buy a workshop manual (any workshop
manual) to find out how these four wheel things work.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 18/6/02 at 08:47 PM |
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Colin,
Yes, I can ramble on a bit. It's my over creative mind you see. That sounded perfectly rash to me as I typed it, but having gone back, it seems like
200words of gobbeldegook......
As for the Pug, I'm assuming that the gearbox is Transverse (i.e. across the car). If so, then you can't use it, as it won't go under the bonnet.
The other problem is, if it is longitudinal (i.e. front to back), then you will find that the transfer box will probably split the power 34/66 F/R, so
not all the power goes down to the back. The front output shaft that would have fed the front axle will also not be happy flailing arround with no
load, and things could get messy indeed.
If you are after a real easy life, I'd be hammering on the door of my nearest LDV breaker.......
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Colin AH
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| posted on 18/6/02 at 10:17 PM |
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I didn't mean that you were rambling, I meant that with my obvious lack of automotive knowledge that I understood it quite clearly. I even understood
your reply, pretty obvious if I had thought about it, if it was that easy to use a FWD engine everybody would be doing it. One last question (for
today) what gearboxs do the Ford diesel cars use? As this was a Peugeot engine until a few years ago might I be able to use it without to much
trouble. If you answer no this time I am going to use the SD1 and the LDV, I promise.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 19/6/02 at 11:10 AM |
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Don't deny it! I do ramble!. I have this fish........
Hmmm, good question. It's the Ford Type 9, with the removeable bellhousing. I dunno if the 2.1/2.3/2.5 blocks were the same as the 1.9 though. Might
be worth investigating if they are, as that saves using the SD1 box.
I'll go have a sniff round and see what I can come up with.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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