diyer
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| posted on 10/8/07 at 10:57 PM |
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zetec turbo conversion
hello all,
trying to put together a turbo conversion for my 2.0l blacktop zetec.
I have started mocking things up on a spare engine.
I intend to run it through a megasquirt system as the current EEC V will not be capable.
I want to keep the original compression ratio and run a low boost level of no more than 10psi with knock control.
I have no room in the lightweight for a air/air intercooler, but i have a water air heat exhanger available, and was going to run a seperate cold
pumped cooling system with a motorbike rad and fan mounted in the rear.
The manifold is from a 1.6l zetec, as i recall 97ish vintage escort??. The turbo is 1.8l k series rover.
What you reckon????
thanks
Simon
Hug a Hoodie!
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scutter
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| posted on 11/8/07 at 05:22 AM |
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I assume that you've read THIS site.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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diyer
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| posted on 11/8/07 at 08:09 AM |
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This is how far i have got so far
 
Rescued attachment DSC00340a.jpg
Hug a Hoodie!
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diyer
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| posted on 11/8/07 at 08:10 AM |
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Another pic.
 
Rescued attachment DSC00336a.jpg
Hug a Hoodie!
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muzchap
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| posted on 11/8/07 at 08:31 AM |
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Hi mate,
I decided against turbo'ing my 7 for lots of reasons - the main one being driveability.
These Zetecs can produce upto 300horses and come in with a bang - not much fun in a tail happy 7!
My advice:
1) Get a Rover Turbo inlet manifold - the ports line up pretty well and only a slight re-fab needed.
2) You'll need a pressure resistant throttle body, it's preferable to swap the Rover one for a Ford one
3) M$ is capabale of running this - but you'd need to take it to a specialist tuner - if I had the money - I'd consider Emerald and Dave
Walker - he's awesome! What's an extra £1000 for a reliable 250hp+ car!!! (ecu+rolling road)
4) Get a 'decompression' plate - you'll kill the engine otherwise - on ebay for around 60 quid. You'll also need 2 RS Focus
multilayer head gaskets - that will drop the compression enough to run the pressure you are looking at.
5) If that's the rover turbo - comes in at around 2000 rpm and produces all its torque at around 3500 - awesome little turbo's - GOOD
CHOICE 
I recently sold all my Zetec Turbo stuff and went Honda S2000 - I might be tempted to supercharge that - lol.
As for the cooling - hmm not sure that will be sufficient - I'd look for a focus RS Intercooler - mount it in the engine bay against the scuttle
- fit a thin rad on top of your rad - there's a company in Nottingham who can do this fabrication and dead cheap too.
I measured it all up - all fitted perfectly with the Focus RS Intercooler - and the pipework was nice and short too - which helps with any lag 
HTH
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 11/8/07 at 09:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
Hi mate,
I decided against turbo'ing my 7 for lots of reasons - the main one being driveability.
These Zetecs can produce upto 300horses and come in with a bang - not much fun in a tail happy 7!
You've obviously not picked the best combination of parts then. There's no reason a turbo se7en should be any less drivable than any
other. I had no problems with my 1.8 turbo Zetec when I had it.
quote:
2) You'll need a pressure resistant throttle body, it's preferable to swap the Rover one for a Ford one
As he's going for Megasquirt, there's no need to do this.
quote:
3) M$ is capabale of running this - but you'd need to take it to a specialist tuner - if I had the money - I'd consider Emerald and
Dave Walker - he's awesome! What's an extra £1000 for a reliable 250hp+ car!!! (ecu+rolling road)
I mapped mine myself with a wideband. Take it to a tuner if you want, but it's not really necessary if you have the tools to do it yourself.
Dunno where you get £1000 to map it from though? My entire engine and turbo conversion came to less than that.
quote:
4) Get a 'decompression' plate - you'll kill the engine otherwise - on ebay for around 60 quid. You'll also need 2 RS
Focus multilayer head gaskets - that will drop the compression enough to run the pressure you are looking at.
You can turbo the stock CR without too many problems. Just make sure the fueling is spot on and the chargecooling is doing what it should. ideally
stay in single figures - with the higher CR you need to run less boost anyway to get similar results.
quote:
5) If that's the rover turbo - comes in at around 2000 rpm and produces all its torque at around 3500 - awesome little turbo's -
GOOD CHOICE
It's a Garrett GT20 from the Rover 75 1.8T. I'd be more concerned that it's rather small for the application myself. I
wouldn't want to be pushing that beyond 200bhp myself...
quote:
As for the cooling - hmm not sure that will be sufficient - I'd look for a focus RS Intercooler - mount it in the engine bay against the
scuttle - fit a thin rad on top of your rad - there's a company in Nottingham who can do this fabrication and dead cheap too.
The way I do it is to use a charge cooler from those eBay poo merchants XS Power. They're actually very good, and for 90 quid posted you
can't argue. Couple that with a Shur-Flo caravan waterpump and a bike rad, you won't go wrong.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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diyer
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| posted on 13/8/07 at 06:04 AM |
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Thsnks for the information and comments
Cheers
Simon
Hug a Hoodie!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/8/07 at 07:00 AM |
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Just to add it is a Rover 820 4 cylinder, 220 420 or 620Ti inlet that is required (ie T16 engine not K16),
Turbo and Non-Turbo versions of the manifold are essentially the same.
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muzchap
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| posted on 13/8/07 at 08:13 AM |
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Hi Simon,
I guess it all depends on your level of expectation.
Dave has put forward some suggestions that just because he did it without a rolling road you wouldn't need it.
I'm giving you an average scenario - yeah the Megasquirt is good - but it does have limitations - if it was TRULY brilliant why aren't
RACE teams using it? They use Emerald - why? - because its a proven product with an expert rolling road technician behind it.
As for mapping yourself with a wideband lambda - fair play - but why would companies including all major manufacturers spend millions (probably
billions) on mapping if you could do it reliably for £140 wideband sensor?
I like this forum for its ingenious use of resources and money saving ideas - but sometimes the suggestions are that just because one person did it -
it's a blueprint aren't always that realistic and achievable.
And - if the 1.8 Turbo Zetec was so great - why did Dave say "It was alright when I had it" meaning it's now no longer being used?
I'm sure you'll reach your own conclusions - anyway best of luck!
[Edited on 13/8/07 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 13/8/07 at 12:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
Dave has put forward some suggestions that just because he did it without a rolling road you wouldn't need it.
Indeed I did, and you don't. Megatune has an autotune function for a reason.
quote:
I'm giving you an average scenario - yeah the Megasquirt is good - but it does have limitations - if it was TRULY brilliant why
aren't RACE teams using it?
Oh p*ss off! What kind of justification is that? Is that the best you can come out with? Just because a race team doesn't use it means
it's no good? Sorry, but that's just the most pointless excuse ever. I bet you buy "RACE proven" parts too?
quote:
They use Emerald - why? - because its a proven product with an expert rolling road technician behind it.
So, therefore, everyone has to use it, because it's competant? Sorry, doesn't work like that.
quote:
As for mapping yourself with a wideband lambda - fair play - but why would companies including all major manufacturers spend millions (probably
billions) on mapping if you could do it reliably for £140 wideband sensor?
Major manufacturers don't build cars from bits of recycled Ford saloon cars. And besides, my local rolling road uses the same £140 wideband as I
do.
quote:
I like this forum for its ingenious use of resources and money saving ideas - but sometimes the suggestions are that just because one person
did it - it's a blueprint aren't always that realistic and achievable.
The site is called Locost Builders. The hint is in the title. There are not many RRs that like touching MS due to its infinite flexibility and the
fact that no two are ever quite the same. The whole point is it's a DIY system. The guy wanted MS for a reason; if he wanted to pay someone else
for their time I expect he would have bought something else.
quote:
And - if the 1.8 Turbo Zetec was so great - why did Dave say "It was alright when I had it" meaning it's now no longer being
used?
You now want to pick holes in my car? Got you on your high horse have I?
You're right. it's no longer being used. It's sat forlorn in the corner of my garage. I was 'OK' in use.
I now have a 2.1 with forged pistons, which is 'better'.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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diyer
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| posted on 13/8/07 at 04:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Just to add it is a Rover 820 4 cylinder, 220 420 or 620Ti inlet that is required (ie T16 engine not K16),
Turbo and Non-Turbo versions of the manifold are essentially the same.
Thanks, but i actually already have a forward facing custom mande plenum that i am running at the moment for the zetec.
Cheers
simon
Hug a Hoodie!
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muzchap
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| posted on 16/8/07 at 11:37 AM |
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Dave - I don't remember you from the past - so I guess you're a new addition.
Most professional wideband kits come in at around £3-5k ???
quote:
Oh p*ss off! What kind of justification is that? Is that the best you can come out with? Just because a race team doesn't use it means
it's no good? Sorry, but that's just the most pointless excuse ever. I bet you buy "RACE proven" parts too?
Er nope - actually I purchased a Honda S2000 engine and gearbox running stock ECU. I'm just saying that most 'RACE' parts eventually
end up in production cars and are then used by us in kitcars. I'm not slating the M$ just saying - that if the guy is worried about lunching an
engine - then £1k for an ecu and rolling session is cheap.
quote:
The site is called Locost Builders. The hint is in the title. There are not many RRs that like touching MS due to its infinite flexibility and the
fact that no two are ever quite the same. The whole point is it's a DIY system. The guy wanted MS for a reason; if he wanted to pay someone else
for their time I expect he would have bought something else.
Exactly, that's the point I'm making - he might be thinking it's an easy job getting this all up and running - he could conceivably
trash his engine! JUST because YOU managed it - doesn't for one second qualify that this guy will - unless of course you're offering to go
map it for him  (you might get lucky here DI-YER)
I don't want to get into an argument with you - just saying - there's always 2 sides to every story - yes you were lucky with yours - but
there's probably a few people out there with blown engines that wished they hadn't tried themselves!
I've just finished using a Zetec on Gixer TB's with a MegaSquirt - it was brilliant - such a punchy, torquey engine - but I spent the
money and had mine mapped with the M$ - Others have benefited as I give my map away free to anybody who asks - I'm just saying unless you are
100% competent (which obviously you must be) self mapping can be quite tricky!
Hope this doesn't result in a flame war!
Cheers,
Murray
[Edited on 16/8/07 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 16/8/07 at 04:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
Dave - I don't remember you from the past - so I guess you're a new addition.
====================
Fatboy Dave
Senior Builder
Posts 381
Registered 16/3/02
Location Somewhere near oxygen and pies
Member Is Online
Photo Archive Go!
Building: Beer gut :-)
====================
muzchap
Senior Builder
Posts 944
Registered 11/7/05
Location Peterborough / London
Member Is Offline
Photo Archive Go!
Building: Luego Zetec done - Luego S2000 on the way 
I think you'll find that I joined, did a while posting and helping, then left for pastures new before you even joined...
quote:
Most professional wideband kits come in at around £3-5k ???
Yes, but you don't buy a 'professional' wideband set for home tuning. The Innovate et al are all as capable and cheaper. This is a
DIY hobby after all.
quote:
Er nope - actually I purchased a Honda S2000 engine and gearbox running stock ECU. I'm just saying that most 'RACE' parts
eventually end up in production cars and are then used by us in kitcars. I'm not slating the M$ just saying - that if the guy is worried about
lunching an engine - then £1k for an ecu and rolling session is cheap.
Errrrm, still deeply flawed logic. Besides, you're talking out of turn here - this isn't a 'RACE' tuned high £ engine;
it's a donor special Zetec that can be replaced for £200 without effort; it's not WORTH a grands worth of ECU and mapping when there is
plenty of experiance and maps to sort him out with an MS.
quote:
Exactly, that's the point I'm making - he might be thinking it's an easy job getting this all up and running - he could
conceivably trash his engine! JUST because YOU managed it - doesn't for one second qualify that this guy will - unless of course you're
offering to go map it for him (you might get lucky here DI-YER)
The offer of any of my turbo maps is open to anyone. However, once you've finished patronising both me and him, he has actually just modified
his manifold, and he's built the car, so I think a little credit is due.
quote:
I don't want to get into an argument with you - just saying - there's always 2 sides to every story - yes you were lucky with yours
- but there's probably a few people out there with blown engines that wished they hadn't tried themselves!
Those are the ones who don't ask for advice, research, or heed the warning signs. They get little sympathy. Mapping an engine is not to be taken
lightly, it takes concentration by anyone who does it.
quote:
I've just finished using a Zetec on Gixer TB's with a MegaSquirt - it was brilliant - such a punchy, torquey engine - but I spent
the money and had mine mapped with the M$ - Others have benefited as I give my map away free to anybody who asks - I'm just saying unless you
are 100% competent (which obviously you must be) self mapping can be quite tricky!
Great, thanks for the justification. Welcome to where I was three years ago.
quote:
Hope this doesn't result in a flame war!
Indeed, however, a more open and less abrasive attitude than "you'll have to buy it and spend a grand on it" attitude wouldn't
have come amiss, especially given the site you're on. Perhaps from both of our parts...?
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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zetec7
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| posted on 22/8/07 at 06:42 PM |
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Everybody, KEEP YOUR HEADS DOWN UNTIL THE SHOOTING STOPS!! They have to stop to reload sooner or later!
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 22/8/07 at 06:45 PM |
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The heated debate stopped six days ago...
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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diyer
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| posted on 24/8/07 at 06:32 PM |
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Update,
I have chargecooler pump, radiator and fan for the cooler, and boost control valve.
Only need to purchase the megasquirt kit and knock controller. and i will have some bolt on power!!!
Simon
Hug a Hoodie!
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