Friberg
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 08:57 AM |
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Bellhousing - GM engine/Ford gearbox?
I'm planning to build a Locost with Saab 2.0 turbo engine, and from -94 they have the same bolt pattern as GM (i.e. Vauxhall, Opel). The gearbox
from the Omega can be fitted but it's much bigger than the Sierras so I want to use that instead.
I've found one company that have bellhousings to connect a GM engine to a Ford gearbox www.yukspeed.com but are there any else?
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ned
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 09:06 AM |
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sbdev.co.uk, rallynuts.com (where i just got mine from) they nearly all use a casting from titan motorsport. there are two length's and types
though, 150mm &170mm long versions and uprights and 7degree slant versions. £155 seems average...
may post a pic shortly...
forgot to say, these fit large block (1800 & 2000cc) vauxhall engines and apparantly v6's too.
Ned.
[Edited on 30/9/03 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Friberg
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 09:41 AM |
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Thanks Ned!
But why are there different lengths and how will I know which one I should use for a Saab engine?
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ned
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 09:47 AM |
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I don't know which one would be suitable for a saab engine, they're slant aren't they? early saab turbos share the block with the
dolomite sprint if i recall.
the short one as i understand it (may be corrected) is for 4 cylinder ford engined gearboxes (except cosworth - different box though) and the longer
one is for v6 ford gearboxes which have a longer input shaft.
I'll find out if this is true shortly when I try to fit mine (150mm) to my pinto gearbox and 8v vauxhall!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Noodle
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 09:55 AM |
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A popular gearbox swap for the 2 litre GM engine was the RWD box from the 1.8 Manta. Strong and reasonably compact. I can't imagine GM made
different types of 2 litre/inline 4 for the European market!
Might be worth a look.
Ned, you're right about the Triumph connection, but it was based on the 1850 Dolomite (still a slant 4).
Cheers,
Neil.
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ned
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 10:07 AM |
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Neil,
The 1850 and sprint (2ltr) shared the same block IIRC (we've had three!)..
Friberg,
The 2ltr manta has the wrong box apparantly (starter wrong side or something), though 1.8 manta and 1.8 carlton getrag gearboxes both fit.
sparkypups offered me one (manta box) a while back, not sure if he still has it though...
I went the ford option as more of them about and easier to get them uprated if need be. there aren't that many manta boxes about any more (and a
lot of the manta brigade want them!)
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Friberg
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 10:09 AM |
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>>Noodle
The Saab engine isn't a regular GM engine - they just started to use the GM bolt pattern from -94. Early Saab engines were slanted, but the one
I'm going to use is upright and comes from the 9000 or the 900/9-3.
The main reason for using a Sierra gearbox would be that it comes with the donor car I'm going to use.
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Noodle
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 10:15 AM |
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Ned,
The Sprint was a bigger bore. (87mm vs 90.3mm).
O/T I realise, but do SAAB now use entirely generic GM engines with tweaks?
Cheers,
Neil.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 10:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
A popular gearbox swap for the 2 litre GM engine was the RWD box from the 1.8 Manta. Strong and reasonably compact.
They dont tend to stand up to much though... I've seen 170bhp kill then after a few months, but that was in a heavy car... so maybe it might
last longer in a locost ?
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Friberg
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| posted on 30/9/03 at 11:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
O/T I realise, but do SAAB now use entirely generic GM engines with tweaks?
Cheers,
Neil.
The engine in the new Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan MY2003 uses a "Saab version" og the GM ecotech-engine. In fact all new Vauhall/Opel with turbo
engines have engines made by Saab so its not that Saab uses a GM engine - its GM that uses Saab engines 
The 9-5 still uses Saab's good old cast iron engine...
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malcolmstoddart
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| posted on 3/11/03 at 10:02 PM |
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vauxhall engine and a ford gearbox...
so what I am reading here is that, my 2litre 16v in my 93k cav.. will mate up to a ford gearbox via one of those bell housings down the page, and in
turn onto an irs, dragged out of a sierra..will the sump need modified as in bafffles...
next query is..whats the electrics in the vauxhall going to be like into the main car loom...am I going to need sponsorship from asprin...!!!
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ned
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| posted on 4/11/03 at 09:47 AM |
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Malcom,
Yes the bellhousing will fit the cav 16v (20xe) engine to the sierra box. No you don't need aspirin, you can run the vx 2ltr 16v from a mk2 1.6
cav dizzy which cuts out all the ecu stuff, then just stick a pair of webers on. 40's will do fine in standard trim, if tuning 45's are
the way to go.
There are a few people using this engine on here.
Let me know if you have any more questions - just post them up!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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malcolmstoddart
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| posted on 4/11/03 at 07:51 PM |
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Vauxhall engine...
Cheers Ned, much appreciated...
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Stu16v
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| posted on 4/11/03 at 11:56 PM |
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....but a lot of what Ned says depends on whether you Cav engine is an 'XE' or an Ecotec. The Ecotec will fit on the same bellhousing, but
you will not be able to use a dizzy, you will need to use the original ECU or an aftermarket one. TBO, the Ecotec isnt worth the effort over say a
Zetec, which is the same hassle to install, minus the expense of a bellhousing conversion. And it is a lot better supported with aftermarket stuff,
i.e. exhaust/inlet manifolds tuning goodies etc.
To tell whether you have a 2.0 XE or Ecotec, look at the spark plug cover. If it is 'L' shaped, it is an XE (top motor ). If it is
straight it is an Ecotec.
HTH Stu.
[Edited on 4/11/03 by Stu16v]
Dont just build it.....make it!
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ned
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| posted on 5/11/03 at 09:56 AM |
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this is a (tuned) ecotec on throttle bodies (cam cover will be same as on standard for id purposes):
and this is a 20xe engine (again a race version, but cam cover is same for id purposes:
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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malcolmstoddart
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| posted on 5/11/03 at 07:52 PM |
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GM engine and ford box...
No worries Ned and Stu, its an XE version...
As I said earlier in the week, about the sump, what one do I use...??? and when the engine is out what else is there to check / modify....
cheers
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Stu16v
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| posted on 5/11/03 at 09:39 PM |
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The sump will need chopping/modifying. You can modify the existing one, but the downside is that it is made of cast ali. You can get a steel one of a
2.0 8v motor and cut and shut that (a lot more 'DIY' , or buy one already done from the likes of SBD, Westfield, or
try here
When the sump is off, invest in some ARP conrod bolts. The standard bolts are prone to letting go with constant high revs, the replacements make the
engine pretty much bullet proof for even quite hairy states of tune.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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ned
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 09:56 AM |
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an 8v sump to cut / shut looks like this as standard:
and a westfield sump looks like this: (£220 though)
IMHO when you do the big end bolts it might be worth doing the bearings too if its a high milage engine.
ned.
[Edited on 6/11/03 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 11:33 AM |
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I'm gonna be chopping my spare 8v sump. Not paying silly money for something i can do myself
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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Scotty
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 12:31 PM |
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i would also like to thank you guys for the info as this is probably the same engine (XE) and box (ford) i'm going to use
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ned
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 12:47 PM |
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Good man, scotty. As an upgrade you could always fit the c20let (calibra turbo) engine if you've got spare cash lying around (as we all do!)
204bhp standard, 250bhp is easy and loads of torque.
they are good for tuning to 380+bhp if you want to become the next hicost!
Ned.
ps see my website for info on the engine and my build....
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Scotty
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 04:55 PM |
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according to a local "guru" this engine, head etc is the same as the turbo engine, just plug in the turbo , well something like that
[Edited on 6/11/03 by Scotty]
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ned
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 05:52 PM |
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not that simple. many subtle differences such as lower compression pistons, oil feed to turbo etc on the c20let
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 6/11/03 at 07:16 PM |
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Ned's right, one of the cams is different. The bottom end is low compression, different pistons,etc. There are oil feeds in the block or head
that go to the turbo. The inlet manifold is completely different.
ECU is different, plus the engine loom is different. Shall I go on ?
This has been covered on Vauxhall Forums before, it's cheaper to buy a 2.0LET than convert a XE.
Mr Guru is not so guru.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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Scotty
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| posted on 7/11/03 at 08:53 AM |
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the world is full of experts.............
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