ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 01:52 PM |
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Best engine for tuning
Hypothetical one:
Engine A
1948cc
83x90mm
10,5:1
140hp@6000rpm
183Nm@4500rpm
BMEP 156 psi (10,6 bar) @max power
Engine B
1998cc
82.7x93
140hp@5500rpm
189Nm@3750rpm
BMEP 166psi (11,3 bar) @max power
I would think that engine A give the best results after tuning since the base power is the same as engine B, but with a lower BMEP.
On the other hand in engine B more revs can be found which is also good voor power.
Tuning plans are:
cams, throttle bodies and 4-2-1 exhaust
What do you think?
[Edited on 10/1/08 by ettore bugatti]
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coozer
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 01:58 PM |
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Duratec...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:03 PM |
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It's not for a seven.
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oadamo
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:04 PM |
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you wont get them powers on a standard engine without boost.
adam
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:13 PM |
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I'm thinking A might be a Volvo S40 2.0L engine 
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:25 PM |
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like a B4204S 
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iank
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oadamo
you wont get them powers on a standard engine without boost.
adam
Why not? 140bhp from a 2litre doesn't sound like f1 technology to me.
My opinion on which is best... too close to call, depends on too many factors we don't know (head design probably being the biggest). Even
then the character of the engines could easily make the slightly less powerful faster in real conditions.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by oadamo
you wont get them powers on a standard engine without boost.
adam
Why not? 140bhp from a 2litre doesn't sound like f1 technology to me.
My opinion on which is best... too close to call, depends on too many factors we don't know (head design probably being the biggest). Even
then the character of the engines could easily make the slightly less powerful faster in real conditions.
It's a B4204S!!!!!
And it doesn't have boost.....
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:46 PM |
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Yes, the first one is the Volvo X40 engine and the second is the F4R from Renault.
Specs are standard tune.
Which one would you tune?
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 02:58 PM |
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It's pretty close so if you're going to change the cams and fit throttle bodies I'd go on pragmatic things like the availability of
cams or throttle bodies!! e.g. the spacing of one or location of accessories may be more / less condusive....
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Aico
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:02 PM |
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Check what others have done. See if there is a difference and look at what parts are availible for what price. Some engines are ready for more HP
while others might be close to the limit of their design.
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:03 PM |
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There is a turbocharged version of the F4R.... which gives some room for upgraditis in the future.....
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:04 PM |
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The one with the most widely available tuning goodies
Which im guessing would be the renault....
Personally i wouldn't go with either and would follow the well trodden route of a Duratec (as suggested above) or buy a better (higher bhp)
engine to start with like a K20A etc
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:20 PM |
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Availability of the tuning parts is not really an issue.
Since Im planning on using modified BMW M3 throttle bodies, MS, home made exhaust manifold and a custom cam profile.
Turbo's are out of the question.
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:30 PM |
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Are cams, exhaust flanges, pistons etc easily available for both engines?
Is there any reason why you are considering just these two engines?
I would have thought a F7R engine would be a better starting point than a F4R and im pretty sure they are the same gearbox bolt pattern.
[Edited on 10/1/08 by Duncan_P]
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:51 PM |
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The F7P/F4R will fit a Volvo 400-series and I think a B4204S will go 'easily' too.
These engines use the same gearbox. So there's no need in custom drive shafts.
An Honda or Ford engine in it would be too much of a sacrify too orginality, I think.
I will post the flow numbers of the heads in a few moments.
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 03:59 PM |
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Volvo T5 2.5l 225hp
cfm@ 10"H2O
lift cfm in cfm ex
0,05 20,7 -
0,1 44,5 41,3
0,15 68 -
0,2 88,2 86,1
0,25 102,2 -
0,3 109,7 106,2
0,35 114,7 -
0,4 118,7 104,1
0,45 120 -
0,5 119 104,7
With 29,95mm intake valves and 25,89mm valves.
Renault F7P 1.8 135hp
cfm@10"H2O
lift cfm in cfm ex
0 0 0
0,05 20,24 19,6
0,1 43,41 41,2
0,15 68,15 59,6
0,2 91,33 75,1
0,25 105,35 83,2
0,3 110,93 88,4
0,35 110,23 90,95
0,4 113,1 90,7
0,45 114,4 93,6
With 30,7mm intake valves and 28.4mm exhaust valves.
CNChead.co.uk and sabreheads
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 04:10 PM |
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Cylinder head flow
It seems that the Volvo has much better exhaust ports.
[Edited on 10/1/08 by ettore bugatti]
[Edited on 10/1/08 by ettore bugatti]
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 04:28 PM |
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But is the T5 2.5L head the same as the 2L X40 head?
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 04:31 PM |
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opened up a can of worms .
theres a difference betwen four and five cylinders .
2.5 20v NA 170 hp, upgraditis , no problem .
all the whiteblock engines (4/5/6) can be fitted rwd , and would surely be a better engine than the renault .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 04:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
But is the T5 2.5L head the same as the 2L X40 head?
Cylinder bore and valve sizes are similar and the white block was designed as a modular engine.
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BenB
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| posted on 10/1/08 at 07:37 PM |
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Course it is! Stupid me.... Volvo engines are often described as modular...
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