mackie
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 09:53 AM |
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Is this engine and gearbox a good deal?
I've been offered an 82k, cleaned up, checked over and partially rebuilt and bench run SD1 Vitesse single plenum engine with (suposedly perfect)
LT77 box, injection bits, ECU, loom (all labelled and with a diagram!), propshaft and exhaust manifolds for £600 plus £65 delivery from Ireland.
I was thinking of seeing if I could get him down to £550. I think he just wants rid.
Is this a good deal, a raging bargain or a bit over the odds?
Another option is a very clean looking carbed engine with K&Ns for £265 plus transportation, it's in the car (and he says we can take the
loom, guages etc) but on an autobox so we'd need to find a good LT77 or R380 (maybe T5) and convert, possibly not making it any cheaper after
everything is considered (flywheel, spigot bearing, clutch etc)
[Edited on 4/12/03 by mackie]
[Edited on 4/12/03 by mackie]
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Noodle
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 10:29 AM |
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How much do you value your time? Trying to find an appropriate combination, get the right clutch, etc. You can spend £££ on travelling fuel and
half-working parts. Could really pee you off.
I don't think it's that expensive for what is a jolly nice motor.
Cheers,
Neil.
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 01:09 PM |
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Mackie,
It's not ideal given that you can't see it in the flesh without travelling to Ireland but at £550 it "might" be a good buy or
a can of worms and it's difficult to tell which.
My criterion when I was hunting for an SD1 engine was to find a nice genuine engine still ideally in the original car with all the engine/chassis
numbers matching up to support the originality of the engine. I wanted as low a mileage as possible obviously but preferred 90/100k miles genuine
engines to "rebuilt" engines unless the rebuild was done professionally with receipts to prove it.
It is also highly advantageous to get all the engine bay wiring looms, hydraulics, hoses and ancillaries if you can.
As I think I have mentioned before, I got an LT77 in "apparently" good condition for £140 and my manual engine with everything and
anything else I wanted from the car for £200. This included the clutch and flywheel assembly, clutch hydraulics and all woring and ancillaries. I was
also able to hear the engine run and witness the oil pressure before parting with cash and it was handy to be involved in the extraction of the engine
as I was able to retain all fasteners and gained the knowledge of how it all goes together.
My advice would be to hold off for a good unmolested SD1 engine still in the car and meeting the above criteria with less than 100k miles. Don't
get a P6 engine and try to avoid Land Rover engines too. I can put you in touch with the guy I got my engine from as he seems quite well connected in
the SD1 community. Drop me an email if interested and I'll pass on his phone number. Lift off a rocker cover (crosshead screwdriver only), take
a look inside and this will give you a very good idea of general engine condition but try to hear it running too and check that oil pressure is good.
By the way the Rocker's always look a bit dirty but on a good engine the sludge will not be caked over the entire assembly as it can be on a bad
engine.
HTH,
Craig.
ps. Drop me an email if you want to talk more about this.
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mackie
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 01:52 PM |
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All good points Craig and I half agree.
There is no good way to check the state of an engine without seeing it running. However if someone has already gone to the trouble of cleaning it and
replacing all the wonky bits then it saves me a job and probably money too. Ok the price he's asking isn't too cheap but then it is a
better engine with more power and I think the plenum looks neater than the twin SUs.
Fact is this guy bought the engine for his own project but decided to use a different one, so, providing he's honest I'm fairly happy that
isn't not just a cleaned up pile of shite. And it's not every day a clean and low mileage (comparitavely) vitesse engine surfaces.
I've still to talk to Jon about it obviously, and we may decide not to bother, the main thing I was wondering about was whether it was a good
price for the description.
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 02:48 PM |
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as a point of interest, what advantage does this sort of V8 have over a similarly priced/cheaper rover 2ltr turbo, aside from the obvious V8 noise? i
suspect the turbo ones should be lighter that large Vs and easier to fit, but do please correct if this is not true!
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mackie
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 03:53 PM |
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It's the V8ness we're after rather than the Roverness if you see what I mean.
Valid point though, the Rover turbo is a good engine (oil leaky thing excused). Just out of interest what rwd gearboxes are suited to it?
The RV8 is pretty light and the vitesse one makes good power (considering the Ford 'HO' 5l makes 220bhp stock) and as I've mentioned
before V8s have a bit more romance about them for me.
I would love to do a 13B powered car though  Which reminds me, I've been offered a go in an RX8.. mmm.
Bloke round the corner from me just got a Lambo Murcielago. Git.
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 04:16 PM |
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um, i see. as far as i know there arent any RWD boxes that go straight on the turbo one. C what you mean about v8 though...!
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Simon
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 04:40 PM |
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Have a look at www.v8tuner.co.uk
They've revamped their website, and include a lot of adaptor plates to mate (amongst others) the Ford box to Rover Turbo.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 4/12/03 by Simon]
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timf
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 04:42 PM |
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saw the k series to ford but not the t series
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 07:30 PM |
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gonna ring them in the morning as i cant see t series specified ont site. Does look likely though seeing as the stock so many other adapters. thanks!
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 07:44 PM |
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Guys,
Robin hood do a T-series bellhousing conversion plate for the Ford gearbox (MT75 I think). Check out their website for details. I also think I read
something about a Sherpa van gearbox or an SD1 2000 bellhousing but I can't remember exactly.
I have a Rover Vitesse Turbo with the 20T4 engine and yes it is a very good torquey engine and has bags of grunt. Mine is modified to produce around
220-230BHP as well.
However, apparently this is a very very heavy engine as it is a big old iron block underneath an advanced (for the age) 16valve cylinder head. It is
supposed to be a good bit heavier than the RV8 and even heavier than the Ford Pinto which itself is heavier than the RV8.
Mackie,
I know how tempting it is to go for an engine like this but Vitesse engines are not as scarse as you might think. Also, whilst I agree that the efi
plenum is tidier than the twin SU's, it will be more difficult to wire up and tuning potential is limited. In the David Hardcastle book he
mentions that most V8 tuners will ditch the efi in favour of a good Weber 500 or Holley 390 carb as they will release more power and can be rejetted
easily to accommodate tuning. The efi will require expensive specialist dyno tuning to set it up correctly. Another point is that I think the plenum
chamber sits just as high or maybe even higher than the SU carbs requiring extra bonnet bulge.
As for the price, if it's a good solid engine and has been rebuilt properly then I think £550 for engine and box is good. I'd try to get a
cheap flight over there first though to check it in person.
Cheers,
Craig.
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 08:08 PM |
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anyone know the robin hood website address? thanks.
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mackie
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 08:46 PM |
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Craig, Noted about tuning, but if we went for a 4 barrel carb we'd have to ditch any existing inlet system anyway, and they cost a lot.
About bonnet bulges, yes it's taller but not as wide as twin SUs with cone filters. The Dax Rush V8 demonstrator has a polished plenum sticking
out of the bonnet and looks pretty cool IMO.
TBPH I think 200bhp is a really quite enough. As I said it includes everything needed to run it, including the labelled loom. Should just need 12v and
fuel from a suitable pump.
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Alan B
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 09:09 PM |
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Go on buy it...
You know you want it...mmmmmm...
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Alan B
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 09:11 PM |
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Sorry was that a little un-objective?....
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blueshift
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 09:23 PM |
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Hehe, no Alan, that's fine, that's what I got to thinking in the end when I'd finished deciding it was reasonable value for money
Agreed it with the guy just now on the phone, he wouldn't budge from 600, stubborn bugger, but his mate's going to deliver it for about 65
quid which is a fair deal and much less bother for us.
200BHP here we come! weeeee!
(I think craig was trying to discourage us cos we're gonna smoke him now )
[Edited on 4/12/03 by blueshift]
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 10:18 PM |
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In your dreams mate!! 
No seriously I wish you luck with it. As I said it seems good enough value for the box and the engine but you are taking a bit of a gamble on the
condition of it all. You know what those smooth talking Oirish are like!!
My own intentions with my engine are to get a decent pair of exhaust silencers and just get the engine running sweet. This may involve replacing some
of the renowned worn parts such as the timing chain, oil pump, distributor drive and internals etc etc. Most of these are cheap to fix. Once I get my
car SVA'd and running and can evaluate the condition of the engine I will decide how best to begin a staged rebuild over next winter probably.
If it's a basket case then I'll just scrap the engine and start again.
Glad you have got sorted and sorry if I appeared negative. I'm sure it will all turn out fine and I'm sure you'll enjoy the feeling
of sitting in your garage gazing at the engine... sad but true!! I must confess to even having given my engine a little pat on the block when I got it
installed in the chassis...
ATB,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 10:31 PM |
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V8 fans,
check out the thread about radiators in the engine section. I've just posted some pics of a potential radiator which looks ideal for +4"
wider chassis'.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Donners90
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 10:49 PM |
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Probably too late now, but Ebay have a load of RV8 engines for sale and the odd adaptor plate. At least most of them are in this country!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2446842044&category=10414
Good luck.
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mackie
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| posted on 4/12/03 at 11:09 PM |
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Your approach makes perfect sense, but our thinking was to get as clean and engine as possible for not too much (proper rebuilts cost too much) and
not have to worry so much. It's a lazy engine and with the kind of mileage that it'll do, hopefully we shouldn't have any problems
and it'll just need fluids every now and again.
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blueshift
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| posted on 5/12/03 at 12:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
In your dreams mate!!
Heh, how about a date at santa pod when we're all done?
And it is a bit of a gamble, but I'm an optimist. He really held out for that 600 quid, wouldn't take 50 less, which hopefully means he
knows it's worth that.
Watch this space, you may yet get to say I told you so when we turn it over and find pushrods made of wood and pistron rings made of tinfoil.
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craig1410
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| posted on 6/12/03 at 12:15 AM |
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Santa pod sounds good but I only intend to race those with IRS in their cars so that I can show them how good de-dion is for start line traction...
Since you guys are doing a joint build you realise that you will have to race with both of you in the car at all times. I just hope you are both quite
heavy so that I can gain some advantage there because otherwise I think that your joint spending power is going to leave me lacking in engine power at
least to start with 
I'll have my fingers crossed that your engine turns out to be a good'un!!
Cheers,
Craig.
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blueshift
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| posted on 6/12/03 at 04:50 AM |
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hah, that's right, roll out the excuses now, get them in early
it's true though, we went a bit nuts on the engine purchase maybe, bit of an unfair advantage..
still, could be a lark be interesting to see how they got on with you in your car and both of us in ours.. hmm.. new clutch anyone?
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madforfishing
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| posted on 6/12/03 at 08:29 AM |
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Mackie, personally I would like to see the engine first. You should really turn it over if you can, if only with a big spanner. If this cant be done
then 'run away!'.
This guy selling it, is he a mechanic or a keen amateur? It'll have to have been put back together spotless and with everything in it's
original order, ie. big end bearings or it'll all be outta shape.
It does sound like a steal. But who's to say he didn't strip it, say 'oh bollocks, loads of machine shop work here' and just
rebuild it with new oil and gaskets.
Sorry to put a black cloud on it but £600 is £600 no matter how you slice it, and a badly built, bore worn V8 is exactly that and is gonna require a
rebore at the very least.
Hope it works out for you though.
You leave me and my rattly xflow at the lights.
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mackie
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| posted on 13/12/03 at 02:20 PM |
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Well it came this morning and it all looks pretty good, we don't really have much stuff left to get to get it running. Basically just needs a
coil, fuel pump and clutch hydraulics, the latter I believe can come off a metro so should be no problem to find.
If anyone has a suitable coil kicking about we'd be very interested. Same with fuel pump although i'm not sure what specification it needs
to be yet.
http://www.ma.ckie.org/gallery/locost
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