Gremlin
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 posted on 8/7/02 at 08:14 AM |
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Bike or car?
What are the good and bad points of both! Why is one better than the other?
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 08:16 AM |
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its been discussed before..........
atb
steve
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Gremlin
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 09:40 AM |
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Woops sorry where?
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Gremlin
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 11:58 AM |
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I have looked trough the forum and cant find what i need to know. Its a toss up between a 1600cc X flow or going bike! I asume the bike engine will be
faster but what other ups and downs are there?
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 12:49 PM |
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John Ison, having built a bike car, can answer you better.
However, there has been a thread in the last week where i outlined the power to weight advantages of each. (or not).
If you are wanting the fastest possible 0-60 in a stripped down racer for the road, then its gotta be bike.
If you want more of a fast cruiser, then go for something less powered.
A bike engine will cost more than a pinto, free with every sierra. You also wont have a reverse gear. A lot of the kits and plans dont support a bike
engine, so you have to make up different mounts.
But then building a locost is a series of engineering and resource problems to be overcome in stages anyway!
atb
Steve
Have a good look thro the threads of the last week and you will find a lot of what you are asking for, inc a link posted by jon for the bike engined
cars group.
atb
steve
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Gremlin
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 03:02 PM |
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I think i must be going mad in my old age just found the post you are on about sorry!
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Gremlin
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 posted on 8/7/02 at 03:11 PM |
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Sorry about this being a bit thick today but very much a beginners in locost building and want to get right engine before I start! Right 0-60 is quick
with bike engine but pure power not so good! So what would be a good quick car engine with plenty of power and good acceleration that needs little
modification to fit into chassis! One With scope for good tweeks and mods. Is there one that stands out!
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interestedparty
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 04:45 PM |
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1600 crossflow
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 06:16 PM |
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I think (if you have the budget!) you ned to speak to mr ISon before you make a decision. Also, look for a thread on Newark. You will find that 3 or
four people were taken out by Jon, from this list, and just about had their faces squashed off by the wind. I dont think they noticed a lack of
torque!
I used a big heavy torquey ford V6 from a granada, but mine isnt a std car.
You need to choose something light and not too tall. As the previous post said, a crossflow is apparently a good choice cos its not as tall as other
engines, like a sierra pinto. Height of the engine is a big factor. A locost is quite a tiny car and an inch or two extra height can make it look
stange, or you end up with power bulges to fit things in!
You can see pics of what my engine looks like on the TOL group on yahoo.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/locost
and look for my name in the pics section.
atb
steve
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 07:48 PM |
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what do you want from the car ?
If you go bike power you will get 0-100 times that only cars like Jame's 350+BHP cosworth locost (hicost) can beat, simple as that.
I have no problem cruising at (where is plod) lets say 70+ on the motorway with bags in reserve, i don't see a down side but others will
mention...... Noise, (i love it), gear changes, (i love em, clutchless) no reverse, (so wot), cost..... well lets just talk cost a minute....
1) 6 speed sequeintional box, you can get a gear set for the type 9 box for around 2.5k.
2) Multi plate clutch.....for a car god knows £££££££ but must be £300+.
3) All steel DOHC 16v full of exotic materials, fancy rods, crank, pistons ect.... for the same stuff in a K series your talking 5k to 8k, for only
50/60 more BHP.
4) Twin 45's, second hand....£300.
5) Electronic ignition, CDI ect....£500.
6) F1 style 12500 rpm limit, cars don't go there.....well only once anyways.....
need i go on ? all the above comes in one package for under £ 1K. To get the same spec in a car motor, unless you go turbo your talking without joking
up to 10k. Oh, and don't forget the bike engine/box/clutch/lectric's weighs in around the same weight as a standerd car gearbox.
There must be a down side somewhere, but i aint found it yet...all this talk of tourqe ect....to prove a point i have took doubters up VERY steep
hills in 5th or 6th at 30mph, she still pulls......
ah the one down side i have to date...it clunks a bit when i drop it into 1st. Hope this is of help to you, its a one side'd point of view but what
else would you expect from me.......
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Gremlin
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 posted on 8/7/02 at 10:09 PM |
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Thanks very much Jon and stephen that helps loads. I have a calibra 4x4 turbo with a 0-60 of 6.something and wanted to get something a bit quicker so
motorbike engine is perfect. I was a little dubious about the crusing but that sounds fine to. Cost isnt to bad for £ to power ratio. How easy
difficult is it to mount and setup?
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 8/7/02 at 10:25 PM |
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On the other hand, perhaps fitting a cossie v6 like maccas trying to sell, or a nissan turbo, both with about 200bhp, might get you a good ways up
there. The extra 50hp from a cossie, over the bike engine, just might haul the extra engine weight quite well.
Just work out some bhp / tonne figures to give some idea to the result.
example :
bhp / weight of car = bhp/tonne
200 hp / 0.6 tonne (cossie) = 333 bhp tonne
158 hp / 0.48 tonne (isonblade?) = 329 bhp tonne.
yer pays yer money.....
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Gremlin
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 posted on 8/7/02 at 10:34 PM |
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Sounds interesting what sort of cash are we talking and are there problems fitting them?
Jon i have just been to David Jenkins web site and seen the pictures of you car and a couple off questions arise!
1. Have you ever had any problems on the road due to not having a reverse and what do you do?
2. What’s the motorbike helmet for is it that dangerous. Should I stick to my 1600cc X Flow
3. Is it more dificult to put a bike engine car onto the road that a car engine locost?
4. Can you fit a reverse? If so how much ruffly?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/7/02 at 07:40 AM |
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Just a few comments:
"i have just been to David Jenkins web site"
- fame at last!
"What’s the motorbike helmet for is it that dangerous."
- You have a 70+ (ahem) wind coming at you, loaded with bugs, flies, bees, wasps, grit, and so on (I had a 'fly strike' on my sunglasses in my
5-minute ride). The helmet also protects you from wind noise, which can damage your hearing. This is all to do with having no screen, rather than
the bike engine.
"ah the one down side i have to date...it clunks a bit when i drop it into 1st."
- I don't know... it helps with the anticipation of a fun ride! Get in, strap up, start the engine, 'clunk' into gear - hang onto your socks,
we're in for a lively ride!
My personal view is that you should first decide what you want from the car - high speed belter (bike), fun but still sporty (Xflow - my choice),
brute force (V8 or Cosworth). All have gone into Locosts!
Putting my software quality assurance hat on... get the customer's requirements and the functional specification sorted - everything after that is
easy.
David
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Gremlin
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| posted on 9/7/02 at 09:07 AM |
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Looking for a bit of fun nice and quick but no problem going for run for hour or so! Would be nice to have quick 0-60 beating my Calibra Turb 6.2ish.
I think it is between X Flow and bike still! I think it is going to depend on how easy each is to mount!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 9/7/02 at 06:31 PM |
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hi Gremlin....
1) No problems, you look for inclines, wide bits, push on floor with hand whilst seated, hit the loud pedal, get out n push...all work fine.
2) Dave is spot on, 70+mph flys hurt.
3) I think the bike is easier, i got 3 mounts but remember thats engine/box/ancills all in, no "does the alternator foul the sterring
ect........"
4) Yes, gearbox's from £500 new, electric from £300 new, home made electric, ( one of this winters project) around £10.
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