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It's not about the money !
Peteff - 23/9/13 at 08:45 AM

Just read about these new cameras that catch 50 times more offenders than the old Gatso, Zengrab lane watch coming soon to a road near you or already there in Glasgow and Kent and Nottingham is getting them soon. Anybody can make a mistake like getting stranded in a box junction if traffic suddenly stops.

MikeRJ - 23/9/13 at 09:29 AM

Still no defence against cloned plates, or incorrectly registered cars.

nick205 - 23/9/13 at 09:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Still no defence against cloned plates, or incorrectly registered cars.


True, but those with cloned plates or ringed cars aren't going to pay a fine either. The generally law abiding motorist on the other hand will cough up time and time again.

gingerprince - 23/9/13 at 11:19 AM

quote:
Kyle Reese @ Terminator
Listen, and understand. That CCTV camera is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are issued with a fixed penalty notice.


Judgement day is upon us.

jps - 23/9/13 at 11:44 AM

Really easy to avoid fines - don't break the rules! Simples!

I'd suggest that someone who 'gets stuck' in a yellow box junction either REALLY isn't paying attention, OR, is wilfully doing something that they know they shouldn't!

nick205 - 23/9/13 at 11:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
Really easy to avoid fines - don't break the rules! Simples!

I'd suggest that someone who 'gets stuck' in a yellow box junction either REALLY isn't paying attention, OR, is wilfully doing something that they know they shouldn't!



I don't disagree with the theory, but, as above, we all make mistakes from time to time.

coyoteboy - 23/9/13 at 12:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
Really easy to avoid fines - don't break the rules! Simples!

I'd suggest that someone who 'gets stuck' in a yellow box junction either REALLY isn't paying attention, OR, is wilfully doing something that they know they shouldn't!


+1

And while we all make mistakes from time to time, that's why punishments are levied - to make sure you don't make them often. Would you like them to not police these things at all because people make mistakes?

[devils advocate]I mistakenly speed at 40 in a 30 at times, it's unfair that these camera things can catch me making a mistake[/devils advocate]

Ultimately, if you're not following the rules you're open to being fined, tough.

[Edited on 23/9/13 by coyoteboy]

escary - 23/9/13 at 05:55 PM

gents, all above points valid.

Recently underwent driver training 25 years after passing my test, made me realise lots of valid points, junctions, lanes and traffic lights being the greatest area of improvement for me.

BUT;

cameras for me aren't working, in Ewan's democracy each camera would be replaced by a traffic or general police officer.

When was the last time you saw a traffic car following you, and how long did you drive legally for thereafter?

The points are right, don't break the law and you'll be fine. However i'd rather have a chat with a police officer any day of the week if i'd made a genuine mistake.

I drive and work in Glasgow, for a large bus company, even the service vehicles and roadside assistance vans are getting caught and to date no relaxations are being offered. Worst on so far, bus breaks down in bus lane, van drives through no vehicle entry point (buses only) in full livery with the name of the bus company on it to get it going, it's not exempt and the engineer has been fined.

Cameras in these cases are useless.

The driver training I did was the smith system, it only works everytime.

steve m - 23/9/13 at 06:15 PM

"When was the last time you saw a traffic car following you, and how long did you drive legally for thereafter?"

Some of them no better drivers than us

A few weeks ago, m8 and I, in my mondeo and we were held back on a single carriage road with double white lines, by a cyclist, and I had a police car, behind me

I held back overtaking, as I would of gone over the double white lines, but when clear, I overtook the bike

Mr plod, right behind me was 80% over the double whites as he overtook the bike

I have a photo of his no plate and the overtaking , as I was going to take it further, but why bother, as I would be pulled every day, until I die!

Steve

morcus - 23/9/13 at 06:49 PM

If the cyclist was doing less than half the limit (or it might be a third, I forget) then its allowed.

The thing with box junction is there are a lot of people who'll cross one then not move up enough, I see it everyday and I know technically you should come to a complete stop until the car infant has cleared but no one does, like stopping for an orange light.

All the time people get automatic fine sent from going into the bus lane to let emergency vehicles pass round here and more cameras mean more stuff like that.

matt_gsxr - 23/9/13 at 08:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
If the cyclist was doing less than half the limit (or it might be a third, I forget) then its allowed.


Good trivia.

Highway code rule 129.
"
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
"

But 10mph on a bike is very slow.

Badger_McLetcher - 23/9/13 at 08:36 PM

Re the minor mistakes... if it really isn't about the money, issue a warning first. Then if the person re offends within a time limit - say a year (arbitrary value here) - THEN fine them. If they re offend within a year again, ramp up the fine. That way the people who make a single mistake are not penalized, whilst those that regularly pay no attention/don't care/are male genitalia do.

SteveWalker - 23/9/13 at 09:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
Really easy to avoid fines - don't break the rules! Simples!

I'd suggest that someone who 'gets stuck' in a yellow box junction either REALLY isn't paying attention, OR, is wilfully doing something that they know they shouldn't!


Unfortunately, there is sometimes no sensible alternative. I live not far from the Trafford Centre and almost daily come off the M60 at an extremely busy junction. Exiting the motorway, the slip-road splits in two, so past a certain point you are committed and cannot change direction. There is a set of traffic lights allowing you onto the roundabout, but you cannot turn left from them and must go straight ahead. There is then another set of lights on the roundabout, before you can continue. On at least two occasions, I have sat as the front vehicle at the first set of lights, through at least three complete cycles of the lights. The road ahead being clear when the light is red for me and having filled with stationary traffic that has come around the roundabout by the time it has gone green again for me. It then becomes a choice of sitting there through God knows how many changes, hoping for a break in the traffic, with the queue behind you tailing back onto the motorway itself or ignoring the yellow box and joining the queue ahead, so that you are beyond the first lights when the second set goes green and the traffic moves off. This is a known problem and the junction is currently being remodelled and an alternative crossing of the Manchester Ship Canal is being provided, so that traffic will be able to leave at the previous junction and get to the same roundabout from a different direction.

Another occasion that it can happen is when the there is enough space for two vehicles at the back of a queue on the far side of a yellow box, but having already entered the box, the vehicle in front suddenly stops a full car length from the stationary traffic ahead or someone switches lanes, taking up the space that you were heading for.

daviep - 23/9/13 at 09:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by jps
Really easy to avoid fines - don't break the rules! Simples!

I'd suggest that someone who 'gets stuck' in a yellow box junction either REALLY isn't paying attention, OR, is wilfully doing something that they know they shouldn't!



Another occasion that it can happen is when the there is enough space for two vehicles at the back of a queue on the far side of a yellow box, but having already entered the box, the vehicle in front suddenly stops a full car length from the stationary traffic ahead or someone switches lanes, taking up the space that you were heading for.


In which case you have entered the box without the exit being clear? The highway code is quite clear about boxed junctions.

Cheers
Davie

Peteff - 23/9/13 at 09:31 PM

There's a box near us where you can be let out of the junction by a considerate motorist then someone presses the Pelican crossing just round the corner and traffic comes to a halt trapping you in the box. You'd need a crystal ball to be able to predict every eventuality, unlike some people on here I admit to not being infallible.

morcus - 23/9/13 at 09:47 PM

Theres also a problem you have in a longer vehicle at some box junctions that I've experienced from coaches in London and Glasgow, people change lanes across the box, so if the bus wait till theres enough space to actually get across, it never will, and thats the problem with a camera system, it doesn't discriminate, or take into account circumstance.

going back to the passing on a solid line, I only know that because a mate at school failed a driving test for not passing a tractor cutting a hedge.