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Which small sports car for £1000
smart51 - 16/1/16 at 09:11 PM

Thanks to comments on the original thread Are MGFs any good? I've changes this to Which small sports car for £1000.

I've been thinking about modding a small 90s hatchback as a cheap project but come to the conclusion that its a lot of effort for results that you could just buy. So I've been looking for other project ideas.

MGFs are quite cheap these days and my budget can stretch to buying a fairly good one and doing some minor mods. But the question is, are they any good as drivers cars?

[Edited on 17-1-2016 by smart51]

blakep82 - 16/1/16 at 09:30 PM

A friend of mine was looking for a pt cruiser, or dodge neon for modding. I said to him i always base my choice on prospective models on how many of the cars you still see on the roads. This proves reliability, build quality, and 2nd hand spare parts availability
I haven't seen an mgf in a very very long time
But cars rust quite bad here really

[Edited on 16/1/16 by blakep82]

big_wasa - 16/1/16 at 09:45 PM

Mgtf is better. I had one the year before last for a few months and loved it.

They have there faults. Mine was the 135.

theduck - 16/1/16 at 10:04 PM

The main reason not to buy an mgf is the mx5

smart51 - 16/1/16 at 10:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
A friend of mine was looking for a pt cruiser, or dodge neon for modding. I said to him i always base my choice on prospective models on how many of the cars you still see on the roads. This proves reliability, build quality, and 2nd hand spare parts availability
I haven't seen an mgf in a very very long time
But cars rust quite bad here really

[Edited on 16/1/16 by blakep82]


Good advice. There are 8,000 on the road, down from 21,000 in 2001. That's a fair number I guess.

smart51 - 16/1/16 at 10:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Mgtf is better. I had one the year before last for a few months and loved it.

They have there faults. Mine was the 135.


What makes the TF better? I'm told it has cross braces in a few places to stiffen it up. What else did they do?

britishtrident - 16/1/16 at 10:18 PM

TF is more sensible than the MGF ---- mainly because the suspension isn't hydraelastic.

Keep in mind its is basically a rear engined Metro --- really more like two Metros nose to tail. Rear suspension is easily deranged by kerbing. Post 1993 models should be fully EOBD compliant which makes diagnostic a lot easier using normal scan tools, if closer to manufacturer level diagnostics are required then there are a couple of scan tools available.


The MG-Rover ones were built by Maypole, experience suggests more prone to rusted seized bolts than mainstream MG-Rover products. Gearbox is the Rover PG1 --- very strong gearbox. Underbody coolant pipes rust through, stainless replacements easily available, if replacing the pipes I would fit a PRT thermostat up front. VVC models are more troublesome and need special tools to replace the belts. Inlet manifold gasket and the steel water pump cross pipe O rings prone to leaking.

Chinese spec SAIC head gasket copes with liner height variation better than the Landrover spec multi-layer gasket and dosen't suffer the detached seals of the Payne gasket and as a result is pretty well bullet proof.

Check the security system works properly especially on the later with the Pekton system --- if it has the Pekton rather than the earlier Lucas 5AS system I would get the the immobiliser connection inside the MEMS box permanently disabled.

[Edited on 16/1/16 by britishtrident]

theconrodkid - 16/1/16 at 10:32 PM

I drove one recently,its a bit of a nail but i was suprised at how well it went round corners,controls are a bit rubbery unlike my super slick MX5 but on the whole,not bad.

maccmike - 16/1/16 at 11:44 PM

I once worked for MG Rover.

The F and TF are not good cars, there is nothing wrong the engine and box, its the rest of the car. They dont handle well either. Try one in the wet.

Start off with a car that drives well to start with.

Ugg10 - 17/1/16 at 12:04 AM

What about Mk1 MR2 for something small and nimble or Mk2 Turbo for power. Didn't realise the mk3 was so cheap either.

Always interested in the Glanza/Starlet turbo, apparently you can get 200hp out of the 1.3 turbo ???

Toyota MR2 mk1 1987

Toyota MR2 TURBO 1992 PROJECT

2000 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVT-i manual

Adamirish - 17/1/16 at 12:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by theduck
The main reason not to buy an mgf is the mx5


^^^this.

The mx5 is better in every area except rust.

I'm not going to jump on the headgasket bandwagon as I like the K series engine but it is a problem, especially as where the engine is mounted getting access is difficult. As BT says the alarm/central locking system on earlier cars is shite. The underbody coolant pipes have normally been squashed/cracked by careless drivers.

An MR2 is a better bet. They are performance bargains really. I bought an mr2 turbo a few years ago and it was a seriously fast(not just quick) car and easily tuned. Very capable too. Pity I as a driver wasn't. Signpost 1 Adam 0

Low profile tyres, too heavy right foot and a wet roundabout. Caught it one way and spat me back the other. It got written off. On the plus side though the payout was more than I gave for the car! so bought a wrx Impreza.

Adamirish - 17/1/16 at 12:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10

Always interested in the Glanza/Starlet turbo, apparently you can get 200hp out of the 1.3 turbo ???



Indeed and quite easily too. A friend had one of the earlier boxy shaped ones. He took my old CT9 turbo from my GT4, took the restrictor out of the exhaust manifold, bigger injectors, inter cooler and Remap. It was either 205 or 210bhp! Surprisingly reliable too! Torque steered like you wouldn't believe.

Simon - 17/1/16 at 01:21 AM

I just got rid of my Espace which will be replaced with an XF later in the year so I also got rid of the TF (after two years and loving it) as we needed a "dog/bike/tip car" so got a 2004 Rover 75 tourer which I absolutely love

I tested the Mk1 MR2 in '87 (along with 5GT T (best hh ever!), 205 GTi (1.9 &1.6), RS Turbo (dire), Mazda 323 4x4 turbo (great), Uno turbo but found the MR2 so gutless and dull, have assumed they'd all be like that

Deffo have another TF, but I'll spend a bit more next time

ATB

Simon

[Edited on 17/1/16 by Simon]

rm0rgan - 17/1/16 at 10:21 AM

My daughter had one for a year or so.

Hateful thing. You sit on it,rather than in it. It had HGF twice. It was horrible to drive and handled like a wet bag.

Don't do it.

rusty nuts - 17/1/16 at 10:45 AM

I've seen a few with rusted wishbones, one of which failed , suspension bush wear can cause interesting handling , not the best of gear changes , one with intermittent steering column fault that could be scary . I think it was a case of getting cars sold and letting the customers find the faults rather than developing the car properly before production . , Typical BMC/ British Leyland/ Austin Rover etc

trextr7monkey - 17/1/16 at 11:48 AM

Still some real bargains to be had in the TR7 and TR8 world if you have a liking for something British that can be tinkered with. Just avoid the really rusty ones. I'm obviously
biased and beyond redemption with 2 of them but there's a resurgence of interest in the car and a lot of rally reps and hill climbers being built. Ignore the myths from 40 years ago and the armchair experts who have never had one

britishtrident - 17/1/16 at 01:56 PM

Handling is truly fantastic but the rear suspension alignment must be maintained to maintain a toe-in, any kerbing or worn bushes get your attention very quickly.


It always astonishes me the number people who can't fit a head gasket properly on these engines, in my family fleet over the last 20 years we have had 9 cars powered k series . Total mileage in our hands over 400,000 miles, total mileage on the cars when sold probably over a million. Number of head gaskets changed 4 all due to external water leaks, in addition we currently have one 75,000 mile R25 with a slow seepage from the original Paynes gasket. Another of those cars was bought as a non runner the previous bodged changing the thermostat resulting in a major water leak

The Chinese spec SAIC gasket is thicker and has more compliance so isn't critical of liner heights as the Freelander MLS gasket and is much more robust than the original Paynes gasket.

britishtrident - 17/1/16 at 01:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by trextr7monkey
Still some real bargains to be had in the TR7 and TR8 world if you have a liking for something British that can be tinkered with. Just avoid the really rusty ones. I'm obviously
biased and beyond redemption with 2 of them but there's a resurgence of interest in the car and a lot of rally reps and hill climbers being built. Ignore the myths from 40 years ago and the armchair experts who have never had one



TR7 probably wasn't the worst car ever built but it is certainly in the top 5 along with the Allegro, SD1, Chrysler 180 and MK4 Zephyr

smart51 - 17/1/16 at 02:21 PM

OK, so opinions vary from they handle great to they're terrible in every way. I guess that's the thing with opinion.

So if not an MGF / MGTF then what is better. My budget is officially sanctioned at £1050. But then I'll be making chassis braces and fitting new bushes that can be bought under the radar. I want a weekend driving car, one with the best handing and room for an overnight bag (or toolbox). What do you recommend?

Sam_68 - 17/1/16 at 02:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
OK, so opinions vary from they handle great to they're terrible in every way. I guess that's the thing with opinion.


I've owned a MK1 MX5, and spent a substantial amount of time driving an ex-girlfriends MGF.

I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the MGF... maybe it was a good one (VVC engine, low mileage), but it was a lot better than I expected after all the negativity you get on the internet. It handled great - very differently from the MX5, being mid-engined, but great all the same, and with better steering feel than the MX5. The engine was much better than the (1.6 litre) MX5's - much more powerfull and loved to rev. The gearchange wasn't quite as good as the MX5's, but was a lot better than either of the Elises I've owned (with the same gearbox but different linkages), and a lot better than it had any right to be as a low-budget mid-engine installation.

To be fair, the MX5 was equally enjoyable - better gearchange, more 'traditional' front engine/RWD handling and felt 'friendlier' as a touring car, but my God was it slow, and the lack of stiffness really used to wind me up, even after I'd fitted all the aftermarket chassis bracing that money could buy.

Trouble is, at your budget level, I can't think of many other viable options. Decent older MG's, Triumphs, Fiat X1/9's etc. have all started appreciating well beyond £1K, and the more modern options like the MR2 Mk. 3 and Smart Roadster (another brilliant and much underated car, if you can learn to live with the horrible gearchange) have yet to depreciate that far except for the worst sheds.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 17/1/16 at 02:43 PM

For the money an mx5 is your best bet find one with the best body/chassis you can buy and you wouldn't go far wrong .

sdh2903 - 17/1/16 at 02:49 PM

For a 1k drivers car I'm surprised no one has suggested a clio 172? Wipes the floor with any of the cars mentioned. Parts are cheap. Loads of mods out there if that's your thing. Just get one thats had the belt and dephaser done and jobs a good un.

trextr7monkey - 17/1/16 at 02:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by trextr7monkey
Still some real bargains to be had in the TR7 and TR8 world if you have a liking for something British that can be tinkered with. Just avoid the really rusty ones. I'm obviously
biased and beyond redemption with 2 of them but there's a resurgence of interest in the car and a lot of rally reps and hill climbers being built. Ignore the myths from 40 years ago and the armchair experts who have never had one



TR7 probably wasn't the worst car ever built but it is certainly in the top 5 along with the Allegro, SD1, Chrysler 180 and MK4 Zephyr

Fair comment BT I always value the detail and obvious years of experience in your replies. Thankfully the worst examples have gone - leaving a few fun to drive bargains , picked up an Mot'd convertible with low mileage V8 for £800 recently which is relevant to original posters queries and well in budget !

Sam_68 - 17/1/16 at 02:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
For a 1k drivers car I'm surprised no one has suggested a clio 172?


Good call, but can you get one (that isn't a wreck) for £1K?

I was under the impression that anything other than a completely Barried shed of an example was still half as much again, or more?

Andybarbet - 17/1/16 at 04:03 PM

I've had 2 Tr7 dropheads & absolutely loved them, handling improvements are relatively simple & not too expensive, massive boot, comfortable cockpit & head gasket problems everyone used to go on about - never had an issue if you service & look after them.

Well designed soft top that I never had problems with aswell, both of mine had zip out back windows which was nice too.

I know it had Marmite looks but I'm a lover & will get another one at some point.

theduck - 17/1/16 at 04:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
For a 1k drivers car I'm surprised no one has suggested a clio 172?


Good call, but can you get one (that isn't a wreck) for £1K?

I was under the impression that anything other than a completely Barried shed of an example was still half as much again, or more?


My last one cost me £1100 and had a recent full cambelt service. Ok so it was on 130k miles but i put 40k on it in a year and it never missed a beat!

smart51 - 17/1/16 at 04:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68To be fair, the MX5 was equally enjoyable - the lack of stiffness really used to wind me up, even after I'd fitted all the aftermarket chassis bracing that money could buy.


And that would do my head in. I had a Suzuki Cappuccino a few years ago which was a joy on a country road. But take it on a track and the chassis twisted up until it lifted a rear wheel. I made 4 chassis stiffening bars which transformed it. I'm happy to do the same to whatever I buy next, so long as it is good when it is finished.

quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68 Smart Roadster (another brilliant and much underated car, if you can learn to live with the horrible gearchange)


I had a go in a Smart Roadster once. The dealer, having failed to service my ForTwo 4 hours after it was booked in, just wanted me out of the showroom as my demeanour was putting off the punters. They're actually quite good fun and the roadster gearchange is both faster and smoother than the ForTwo. Even the Brabus roadster is a bit too slow for what I'm looking for, though. I'd have bought one in preference to the ForTwo if they were similar in price. My objection is that they were made of the same stuff. Same seats, same engine, more or less the same chassis etc. They even weighed the same. But the roadster was twice the price. It just wasn't worth it. For a grand, though, I'd be quite happy.

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
For a 1k drivers car I'm surprised no one has suggested a clio 172? Wipes the floor with any of the cars mentioned. Parts are cheap. Loads of mods out there if that's your thing. Just get one thats had the belt and dephaser done and jobs a good un.


Nice! I hadn't thought of that. The only ones under £1500 have done over 100,000 miles it seems. My shortlist is now MGF / TF, Mk3 MR2 and 2.0 Clio. I just can't get myself to like the MX5. Not sure why really.

[Edited on 17-1-2016 by smart51]

ian locostzx9rc2 - 17/1/16 at 04:44 PM

Don't dismiss a mx5 if you haven't driven one best cheap soft top you can buy by far .

jps - 17/1/16 at 06:22 PM

1.7 Ford Puma? (I will declare an interest, there's one on my driveway that I would like to shift on to someone who will use it more than I do)...

Certainly nippy although not mega quick and certainly available for less than 1k. Maybe not 'sports' enough though? And in its 'sector' probably trumped by the Clio mentioned above...

SJ - 17/1/16 at 07:03 PM

Out of that list the only one I'd be looking at would be the Clio. My preference isn't for soft tops though.

Stu

loggyboy - 17/1/16 at 07:12 PM

Glad someone other than me suggested clio as it does seem they are all i go on about - but for a good reason! Ive had 4. 2x 172s at £500 requiring major engine work (but at time being worth 2k once repaired), 1x 182 at £1300 requiring similar. The other my current is high miler but was only £1k. Runs like a dream and BHP is 'as new'.
Best hot hatch at budget levels by miles. If u plan for track it takes something special and more expensive to put you in your place. Plenty out there for 1k price, just be sure cambelt is done or budget £500 for a specialist to do (don't use any old garage) or budget for £300 in parts and tools and lots of swearing to do yourself.

[Edited on 17-1-16 by loggyboy]

Daf - 17/1/16 at 07:42 PM

The MGF is a funny one - I had one for years and loved it, it was well maintained and set up and really used to surprise people. However I bought a second one as an MOT failure for spares and it was an utter dog, completely different cars - so I think a lot of the conflicting opinions might be down to bad/good cars, the suspension geo is key on the MGF. With regards to the HGF as someone has previously said if it's put back together properly it shouldn't go wrong, there's a lot of half arssed repairs out there on the k-series HGF and you just can't get away with it on that engine. I have a hydragas pump too so if you do go down this road and you need to work on it give me a shout!

I gave the wife the MGF and she loved it, when we eventually changed it we went for an MX5 because all the press and what you read on the web points to it being than the MGF - but what an utter let down! IMHO it's the most over rated car ever - it was such a dissapointment.

The clio is a cracking choice - my friend bought one two years ago for £850, other than the back box falling off and a broken suspension spring nothing has gone wrong with it and it's brilliant fun!

Having driven them all, and lived with two of them I'd go for the MGF but would be really tempted with a Clio if the right one came up.

Sam_68 - 17/1/16 at 08:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I had a go in a Smart Roadster once... But the roadster was twice the price. It just wasn't worth it. For a grand, though, I'd be quite happy.


I had a Brabus Roadster Coupe for a bit. In its defence, you could throw it around like you could never dream of with a ForTwo. And whilst it was double the price of a ForTwo to buy, I actually made a couple of grand profit on selling it, so all good there.

But yes, they're well overpriced for their performance (particularly the Brabus models), and in any case you're not going to get one for anything like your £1K budget so the idea would be academic.

Clio 172 certainly has legs if you can pick one up for the right price and you're not fixed on a 2-seat roadster - cracking little car to drive!



I've quite fancied a Cappuccino myself, for road use. How did you stiffen yours up, and what was it like otherwise? Any issues to look out for apart from rust?

SCAR - 17/1/16 at 08:42 PM

MGF is an lot of fun car for the money especially as cheap as this
Description
Description 1.8vvc W reg
Recent discs, pads, oil and filters, MOT
£400 and drive it away

smart51 - 17/1/16 at 09:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68I've quite fancied a Cappuccino myself, for road use. How did you stiffen yours up, and what was it like otherwise? Any issues to look out for apart from rust?


I loved it. It was very reliable and surprisingly capable. 0-60 in 8.5s surprised many. Being very narrow meant you could take a wider line through the corners and carry a bit more speed. In the dry there was plenty of grip too. On the track I seemed to catch people up through the twisty bits. In the wet though, the rear would break away in a corner at even low speed, though only gently and easily held.

There was no hand room anywhere to work on it. I bought a special small socket set so I could get more than a quarter turn on the ratchet. They have a reputation for rust and I say pictures of some horrors, but mine was absolutely 100% original with no rust other than the odd stone chip underneath.

The mod that made the most difference to th handing was a bolt on brace across the bottom of the transmission tunnel where the subframe met the body. The transmission tunnel was very deep. I think when you turned into a corner, one of the floor pans shifted forward and the other backwards as the body flexed. Tying them together stopped them moving. Other than bracing the tunnel front and rear, a front 'strut't brace across the engine bay and a brace behind the seats held the body together front and back.

Sam_68 - 17/1/16 at 09:55 PM

Thanks.

That's an itch I might have to scratch, before they all disappear!

JC - 17/1/16 at 10:28 PM

The answer is whichever is best for the money! One car might be better than another when new, but 20 years down the line you could compare 2 otherwise identical MX5s and find one fab, one awful! Look what is available at the price, drive it and if it's good, buy it!

mjkh - 18/1/16 at 05:42 AM

Are Fiat Barchettas out of your price range? It's a good handling car and IMO better looking than the MX5. Early models are better quality than the later ones. Its a reliabe car and parts are reasonably priced.

jelly head - 18/1/16 at 07:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Plenty out there for 1k price, just be sure cambelt is done or budget £500 for a specialist to do (don't use any old garage) or budget for £300 in parts and tools and lots of swearing to do yourself.

[Edited on 17-1-16 by loggyboy]


Agreed - just doing the cambelt on my 172 at the moment (as well as sneaking some cams in ) and most of the car has to come apart, right ball ache.

nick205 - 18/1/16 at 08:52 AM

My mum has an MGTF for which she paid a massive £600. I've not driven it, but it's close to immaculate and open to modding as well. Personally, I don't like them to look at, but on the value stakes they must be pretty high these days.

swanny - 18/1/16 at 09:33 AM

one day people will be amazed that you owned a british built sports car from a british owned company.

unless you buy an aston, these days its pretty tricky (kit cars aside)

i always liked MG/Rovers as they attracted a sub set of very mature owners who are often very good to their cars.

re sale on rovers is often poor so the previous owners£££££s they invested in servicing isnt shown in purchase price

ive never had any bother with mine. buy a good well loved one and scratch the itch.

Keep it british for as long as you can!

or buy a gtm libra/spyder. same mecahnicals, less weight, still got a roof and doors, heater and radio....

Stevie_P - 18/1/16 at 02:06 PM

I have an MR2 Roadster which would sell if you're interested?
It's over your budget as is but does have the hardtop and fitting kit which, if you sold, would bring the car into your sort of budget.
PM me if interested and I can send you some pictures and give some more details.
Steve

swanny - 18/1/16 at 03:29 PM

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=0fab63679af430c9aa13029bcf6af8ff&t=233340

britishtrident - 18/1/16 at 03:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by swanny
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=0fab63679af430c9aa13029bcf6af8ff&t=233340


Looks a nice motor.

ravingfool - 18/1/16 at 05:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by swanny
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=0fab63679af430c9aa13029bcf6af8ff&t=233340


I pointed a colleague towards that recently but she ended up buying some Mercedes thing. Can't understand why, especially at that price!