Board logo

SAAB 2.0-2.3 turbo power?
navyseamonkey2011 - 8/4/13 at 03:00 PM

For a while I have been pondering on what engine to put into my Tiger cat,
Has anyone on here ever installed a SAAB 2.0 or 2.3 turbo engine into a locost style chassis.
I know its a heavy lump but 200-250bhp for pennies cant be snifted at.
I have heard of one instance where a 2.0 b204 was fitted into a kitcar but has anyone ever fitted a b234r out of a SAAB 95 AERO? 250bhp+standard.
Also as it has a GM bellhousing pattern they could also mate up to a r28 Omega box.
I was thiking about using the standard loom with the SAAB tronic ecu, these can be de immobilised??
What your views? is this a great idea or is there anyreason why its not that popular

Ben_Copeland - 8/4/13 at 03:35 PM

Ashg is the man to have a chat too. It's not as easy as it appears! There's a lot of bits you have to keep if fitting with original ecu.

mookaloid - 8/4/13 at 03:47 PM

If you do keep the original ECU then I know a man with a Laptop who can do wonderful things with the maps on saabs

Come to think of it I can ask him if he can disable the immobiliser too - I know it won't be all that easy but if I'm being honest why would you want to? some security on the car is not a bad idea.

I like the idea though (being a 9-5 owner myself) keep us posted

ashg - 8/4/13 at 07:20 PM

buy this months ckc magazine there is a whole 6-7 page write up in there about how i converted over to saab power :-)

its in the may stoneleigh edition should be on the shelf in smiths

ashg - 8/4/13 at 07:22 PM

also it will be on display in the hall at the detling kitcar show this weekend if your not too far away and fancy a look, failing that it will be at stoneleigh and donnington kit car show out in the fields no doubt.

PeterV - 8/4/13 at 07:35 PM

I have built a WLR with a Saab B204 full story and build diary is here linky
This motor gives fantastic £/BHP but is a tad complex if you don't want to use all Saab bits. On the other hand with all the Saab bits its very easy to tune to massive power levels. Some push well over 400bhp without too much expense 300bhp is simple. 2.3 units push even more power although torque levels are off the scale and tire shredding for a light weight locost.
<£500 for a complete car that you can take all the bits from. The market for engines only is a more expensive route as everyone wants to sell the ancillary items separately.
PS I'm a big Saab fan have and still have lots so I'm bias

[Edited on 8/4/13 by PeterV]

Zagato - 8/4/13 at 08:23 PM

Also a big SAAB fan, especially pre GM had a 2 stroke 96, 10 x V4 96's, 99's, 900's, 9000 and currently a 9-5, boring, as it's a diesel but does the rocket ship mileage and run it into the ground - last one took 8 years to kill, bargain motoring when you can pick them up for about 4-5K when they were 5 years old.

Question - I was going to ask this about locusts anyway BUT any SAAB with 175BHP skids it's wheels like crazy even at 30 mph in the dry (remember the nightmare a Viggen was to drive with 200 BHP = I think it was!) - how do locusts avoid this skidding especially with some motors having over 200BHP. Is it just a case of being VERY sensitive when hoofing it, or is it because it maybe ain't got a turbo on the Locusts.

40inches - 8/4/13 at 08:36 PM

The beauty of Trionic 7 is that you remap for the power output you want, so you can cut the torque in the lower gears/rev range
to suit the car.
I believe T66 had/has the gear to remap Trionic 7, he will know a lot more about it than me.

PeterV - 8/4/13 at 09:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
The beauty of Trionic 7 is that you remap for the power output you want, so you can cut the torque in the lower gears/rev range
to suit the car.
I believe T66 had/has the gear to remap Trionic 7, he will know a lot more about it than me.


As above with T5 but not quite as clever as T7 as no gear indication unless its an auto but using some softening of boost at 2k rpm and low boost down at lower revs helps a lot. Right foot does the rest. Me thinks the 2.3 would need a lot of fettling as thal whole idea of the B235 was to up the torque.

The 93 2.8 areo awd I have now is already exciting my little grey cells but I'll have to run it for many years yet. LPG converted as well as motronic ECU so would take a lot more learning to figure that lot out.

A 93 with full Abbott kit and tuning wife wrote it off at 130K. Replaced with an 93 coup now half tunned. A 95 2.3 Estate heavily tunned (replaced at 170K) and the WLR complete my Saab list. The WLR has had 6 maps so far but can't use the 300bhp map without smoking the rear tires and melting the gearbox. The later is the main issue to sort next. Suprised it's survived this long to be honest.

Zagato - 9/4/13 at 09:02 AM

Nutters you lot LOL and there's me wondering if 140BHP is gonna be too much .

Had a mate that got his 9-3 up to 175 BHP via abbot, but he sold it for a Suburu after we had a scrap with one a up a steepish hill, twisty hill in Purley towards Croydon. 4wd and no wheels spin was his answer to navana! I was still doing 0-60 in 17 secs in an old V4

navyseamonkey2011 - 9/4/13 at 11:47 AM

Ok after much thought i think that the 2.0 ltr would be the sensible option.
Im gonna keep an eye out for a cheap 9-3 aero or similar. would the saab flywheel and pressure plate work with a omega friction plate? also whats the best way to go about wiring it. i want to use the standard ecu but just the engine harness, was thinking about removing the immobiliser from the ecu. how would i go about wiring it in to my existing dash and ignition switch.
would the wiring diagrams in a haynes manual be enough?

I would love to see your saab powered cars in the flesh, at least then it will give me a good idea of whats in involved.
I cant make the Detling show but will be going to the Stoneleigh and Donnigton shows. would you guys mind if i came armed with a tape measure?

FASTdan - 9/4/13 at 03:10 PM

I like the sound of these saab units for a bonkers turbo Se7en. Wonder how they compare in terms of ease/cost to something like the 200SX lump (which is another bang per buck motor, or so I keep reading).

Where does the tuning potential of the stock lumps run out (ie when you need to start playing with internals)? Though 300bhp should be plenty for anyone, ever since seeing Porky's white cossie westie vids (500bhp?) with porsche GT race cars appearing to be in reverse, I've wanted something completely mental.

PeterV - 9/4/13 at 04:52 PM

Stay away from the B205 & B235 motors which suffered from blow by of the cylinders so bad carbon build up in the sump, some to terminal levels. The engines internals themselves were far weaker than the earlier engines. B234's will run 500BHP with no internal mods (there has been a B204 running that power as well but it was over reved to do it). Hybrid turbos, 3 bar map sensors, big inter-coolers etc are all external add ons and can be fitted as & when funds allow. Using standard FTP turbo big bore exhaust and 3 bar map my engine has run 400bhp. The WLR won't cope yet
These motors will run 600 & 666BHP with internal mods but not that much work required. Very bullet proof and loads of help out there for tuning using T5 or T7 suit on a laptop.

Dan. - 9/4/13 at 05:45 PM

Don't worry about getting an aero a 9-3 se is fine, same engine, only differences APC valve for controlling boost and the map (which you will change anyway to bypass the imobaliser) and clutch 228mm instead of 240mm but unless you will be running well over 300hp and matching torque that won't be an issue.
All above is based on experience from tuning a 150bhp Saab 9-3 SE into a 400bhp monster.

Magnus 2074 - 21/4/13 at 09:14 PM

I think the B204 engine from Saab 900 and 9000 turbo 94-98 is the way to go. It's actually quite common here in Sweden to build chassis around this engine.
It's pretty much a bullet proof engine up to 400bhp with original internal parts.
I'm building a GTS Panther myself (I was very lucky to recieve all my parts) with a 8000 rpm race Saab B204 engine.