Guinness
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:07 PM |
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Any electricians in?
I have a problem with my shower!
Bought house (that Jack built) about 8 years ago. In the bathroom there was a shower. It worked perfectly for 7 1/2 years, then one day it started
to smell, it melted the plastic outer case. So I threw it away and got an equivalent replacement. Fitted that.
This morning, while having my shower, I got that familiar burning smell. Touched the case and lo it was very hot.
So tonight, I've taken the cover off, to find a set of melty wires inside. The wires from the mains to the chock block look ok:-
.JPG)
But the big brown wires inside at the top look like they've had it:-
.JPG)
They were stuck to the little yellow one (which goes to the light on the front), which has also melted. The brown one and the yellow one might have
been stuck together, but they've come loose when I've removed the cover:-
.JPG)
I can't tell how big the supply cable is just from looking at it, and there are no markings on it. But here is a photo of the cable (on the
right) next to the ring main for upstairs and the lighting ring for upstairs:-
(probably not that helpful as it is lying flat and the other cables are on edge!)
.JPG)
Finally my fuse board, showing the separate fuse for the shower, which hasn't tripped yet (either this time or last time the shower went:-
.JPG)
So before I pull the shower off the wall and take it back to the supplier (it's still in guarantee) can anyone tell me what has happened and why.
And more importantly will it happen again if I install the same shower again?
Cheers
Mike
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daniel mason
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:13 PM |
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what rating is the shower in kw? the cable wil have csa on somewhere mate. pull a clip off and look on the back. i assume you meant the cable to the
left and not the right? get back to me with the info and will try to help from there. am an electrician by the way
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JohnN
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:17 PM |
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I'm not an electrician
But I wouldn't have thought that the supply cable was an issue, nor it seems are the thinner blue wires connected to the neutral.
The problem seems to be the fat brown wires connected to live and going to the heater. It seems to have got hot enough to melt the insulation in
contact with the yellow wire (presumably making the smell)
If you don't have an earth leakage circuit breaker, then I'd wonder about a short to earth, drawing more power than the brown cable can
support (and not affecting the return blue wires, which look OK)
Now then lets hear from a sparky
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daniel mason
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:25 PM |
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the supply cable definately has not caused this problem,but if the shower is rated at a higher rating than the supply cable can deal with it could be
dangerous. the cable looks like a 6.0mm which is fine on a 32 amp mcb. a loose connection on the internal browns to the heater or the internal browns
being trapped against the hot pipe look more like the problem
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Alan B
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:28 PM |
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I agree about the supply cable being Ok...I think I'd be looking a the source of the intense heat and hence a point of high
resistance...I'd guess oxidisation at connection point.
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Shogun969
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:32 PM |
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Shower Fault
Looking at the colour of the screw on the connection of the over heat stat i would say that either it is loose or there is a bad connection from the
screw to the cables. This has caused excessive current to be drawn and so started to melt the insulation of the cables. It would only trip if went to
earth or Neutral or was drawing more current than the trip is rated at. Take it back i say.
Cheers
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westf27
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:37 PM |
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thats just a poor connection on the live connection to heater.Cut back brown wires till the conductor is bright copper and re terminate,clean heater
connection area and secure.
555
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Guinness
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:37 PM |
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Thanks Guys
Pulled the whole length off supply cable loose. No markings other than BASEC BS6009 on it, either side.
Had wiggle of the brown wires, the screw that is brown (compared to the rest of them) is loose and the wires can wiggle but that could be due to the
build up of heat / cooling?
Shower is 8.5kW I think.
Cheers
Mike
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daniel mason
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:45 PM |
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westf27 is spot on i think mate.its the only place it can be really.it looks quite servere tho so its a good job you found it when you did. if you do
re terminate the wires make sure they are very tight, (including the internal factory ones,which yours is)
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grusks2
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:52 PM |
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Im a sparks,
I used to find all the time on triton & mira showers there was the odd loose screw, i got in the habbit of fitting spring or star washers under
them. The vibration from the pumps shacks them loose over time.
http://mac1worxbuild.wordpress.com/
forgot my old password so another username doh
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Hellfire
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:53 PM |
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Those brown wires go to the heating elements inside the Copper Tank. Whether they are faulty or not there is a problem which is not your fault.
Any re-work will void your warranty - take it back Mike.
Steve
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b16mts
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 07:58 PM |
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yep!
everything your end fine, the brown wires have probably had a slightly loose connection which just snowballs overtime, as the more it heats and cools,
the more corroded it gets, the looser it gets, so the more it heats and cools, until eventually it start to smell funky.
see pretty much one of these per month, as i'm a spark with the local housing trust. worth seeing what the manufacturer will do, but they might
throw it back at you, saying it must have happened when it was installed.
best of luck,
Martin
PS. thouigh there's no harm in fixing it yourself, just make sure the terminals are clean and tight.
who says you can't drive a kit car when you're 6'5"?
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madrallysport
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 09:27 PM |
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Poor connection, very common fault.
UNDERSTEER is when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
OVERSTEER is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
HORSEPOWER is how fast you hit the wall.
TORQUE is how far you take the wall with you.
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quinnj3
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 10:05 PM |
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yep I agree with most of these guys too. Any loose connection will develop into burning especially with something with as much current draw as a
shower. Regularly with speciallist items there will be a sticker telling you to check all factory connections, although this is not something that
would be expected of a shower, its something to keep in mind. Something I have come across fairly regularly with showers is that heater high temp
stat gives up. The symptoms are normal running followed by spells of cold water. Can fluctuate quite a bit. Most people throw out their shower at
this point but I've saved a couple by replacing the stat.
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 10:18 PM |
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I had the same effect with the shower's ceiling pull-switch - originally I had an MK switch, which was a sod to pull (took a lot of effort).
Started to get frying noises, so I unscrewed it to find 2 or 3 inches of melted cable due to a loose connector - very scary considering that the loft
was just above. What was worse was that the MK-made replacement was no better.
Eventually I replaced the replacement with a totally different make from B&Q (can't remember what make, but it was British). It was so much
better - 2 big screws for each cable end instead of the MK's 1 small one, and a much better switching action. This one's lasted more
than 5 years, against the MK's 2 years each, with no sign of cable loosening (I check, occasionally).
MK used to be the best brand, but no longer methinks.
<end rant>
[Edited on 23/2/09 by David Jenkins]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 10:22 PM |
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Nagh - I still think MK make the best switches, they did go through a complacent stage a few years ago.... it's not specific to just them. All
manufacturers rest on their laurels from time to time.
Steve
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 10:37 PM |
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What size engine has it got?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 10:42 PM |
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Inside, there are the two connections that your mains cable, presumably 6mm is connected to. Just to the left is the heater, connected to the brown
wires and the loose screw. Underneath that, is a white valve, which will open and close with the flow of electrons, whereby the water will also flow
through its cavity and out of its discharge outlet. The problem cold be that, connected to this outlet, is a long hose, that is also connected to the
shower head. Have a lok inside the end of this, as the problem might be caused by the ting holding it... 
Conclusion; Loose Terminal. 
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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f1ngers
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| posted on 23/2/09 at 11:04 PM |
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Same thing happened to me in December.
I bet it's a Triton
Don't remove it before calling the Triton service dept. 0870 067 3333 and they will send an engineer to check it.
If you remove it as I did they won't honour the guarantee as the engineer has to inspect the installation before Triton will consider replacing
it.
 
Description
[Edited on 23/2/09 by f1ngers]
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Guinness
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| posted on 24/2/09 at 07:28 AM |
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Whoa! Fingers, took me a minute to realise that wasn't my shower! It looks identical!
Mike
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02GF74
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| posted on 24/2/09 at 08:45 AM |
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you'd have thought that by now the shower people would have comne up with a better connector. poor show.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/2/09 at 08:58 AM |
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Made within a budget in outer mongolia somewhere for £2.
[Edited on 24/2/09 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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