Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 11:48 AM |
|
|
Bypass oil filter – anyone use one?
Hi,
Been looking at 1 micron oil bypass filters, if you’ve seen these on YouTube they seem to remove everything (metal, soot, water, acid etc) making even
dirty oil super clean and like new. I’ve been quoted £120 for a kit for the landy from a reputable company and the price seems very reasonable
especially as the Landy holds quite substantial quantities of oil (6.25ltrs). I’ve already fitted very strong magnetic drain plugs (all 7 of them)
but would like to improve the engines 1950’s agricultural oil system even further. Fortunately, it lends itself very well to fitting this kit having
an old style truck/tractor canister oil filter so tapping into the oiled feed is very simple and exactly as they recommend.
Estimates for oil life after fitting are between 70 & 100k miles so would more than cover the cost of the kit in around 4 years assuming about 5k
miles a year or an oil change a year, not forgetting the expected huge reduction on engine wear. It’s a pity that I can’t see an easy way to do
something with the gearbox and axle oil without fitting some kind of separate oil pump to circulate it through another filter… that may be going OTT
for a Landy though 
Any thoughts or experience with these kinds of filters?
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
Slater
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 12:21 PM |
|
|
How often do you need to change the filter?
I would have though it would get clogged up pretty quick if it's 1 micron.
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 12:29 PM |
|
|
Not familiar with the kits myself, but I think I'd opt for a bi-annual change of the normal oil filter + oil.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 01:42 PM |
|
|
they recommend a filter change every 15k miles, which is still only every 3 years for me but at the same time massively reducing the wear and tear on
the engine. As the normal oil filter is still fitted and taking the majority of the oil flowed through the engine, the 1 micron filter is left to deal
with the really small stuff like the soot and fine metals that act like grinding paste etc
The reason 1 micron seems to be important is that is less than the clearance distance within the compressed oil film between bearing surfaces so
anything of this size and smaller will not be touching both surfaces. They seem very common on trucks and large commercial engines, obviously car
manufactures would not be wanting this fitted to their very disposable cars...
Although as I said I have powerful magnetic sump plugs fitted (video's off these working are quite fascinating), there is a lot of non magnetic
metal used in engines so this will be primarily to deal with this.
Too frequent changing of the normal oil filter is actually more harmful as they are most effective half way through their life as the particle size
they filter out reduces as they get used (till obviously nothing eventually gets through and then oils bypassed)
[Edited on 28/11/17 by Mr Whippy]
|
|
|
Bluemoon
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 01:54 PM |
|
|
What about other contaminates, i.e. water, fuel, acids, there are plenty more that are not solids and would not be trapped in filters. In a commercial
setting for large amounts of oil (ships engines etc) it's send for analysis to indicate when an oil change is needed but you will not have
access to this..
Dan
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 03:08 PM |
|
|
well according to their and other manufactures info all that is trapped (makers name removed so I don't seem biased...) -
ENGINE BY PASS OIL FILTER SYSTEM
The by pass filter system passes only a small portion of the total oil flow through a very dense filter cartridge at around 6 to 7 litres per minute.
At this speed, it is possible to remove particles down to 1 micron and totally remove water, greatly decreasing engine wear and prolonging oil life.
This type of filtration can eliminate water and particle contamination, extend oil life up to 5 times and hydraulic oil up to 10 times, reduce engine
wear and component wear, dramatically reduce downtime, remove particles down to 1 micron, and is applicable to all engines as well as for hydraulic
systems.
Bypass oil filtration technology was originally introduced to the trucking industry in the 1930's. It was the exclusive means for filtering
engine oil from the early 1930's until the early 1960's. At that time, engine manufactures moved away from bypass filtration when full
flow filtration became the vogue. Full flow filters don't have the ability to filter out anything but the largest particles out of the oil.
Factory full flow oil filters are not even designed to purify the oil down to a single digit micron level but mainly to filter all the oil at a high
rate before it gets to the engine. Since full flow filters filter the oil at such a high flow rate, it is unable to trap the microscopic particles
that enter the oil and which can damage your engine. During the last 10 years bypass filtration interest has been rekindled and has been positioned
mainly as a way for fleets to extend engine oil life and oil drain intervals. People now realize you can have the best of both worlds by running
bypass filtration along side your full flow filter. This allows the full flow filter to catch the large particles and the Bypass Filtration System to
catch particles down to 1-micron in size, all the water and acid, as well as the soot that will inevitably end up in the engine oil.
Key Benefits to Vehicle Fleets
· Extend oil service life! Typical average oil change cost on a large vehicle is around £80.00 to £120.00 per oil change!
· Reduce operational costs.
· Extend depreciation costs.
· Reducing oil disposal fees.
· Reducing dependency on foreign oil and oil reserves.
· Enhancing our environmental commitment and awareness.
· Assists with reducing the carbon footprint
· Improving daily vehicle availability through scheduled maintenance.
· Reducing unscheduled service breakdowns and costly repairs!
· Freeing up technicians to perform other important service tasks!
· Virtually eliminate engine wear so improving reliability.
· At the end of vehicle service life the unit can be transferred to a new vehicle.
· No moving parts to wear out.
· Remove 99.95% of all water from your oil.
· Assists in cleaner running which can reduce fuel costs.
· Remove's all wear causing particles down to 1-micron in size.
· Reduce time needed for service...those 1-2 hour oil changes become 15 minute filter changes!
· Does NOT remove additive package components in oil.
Recommendations for Use -
****** Bypass Filtration can be a valuable addition for a vehicle fleet if:
· You put a large amount of miles on your vehicles annually.
· You currently change your oil every 10,000 to 25,000 miles and would be interested in saving yourself significant money by extending your oil drain
interval schedule. Up to a 90% savings can be realized in some cases.
· You want to minimize downtime and maximize your profits.
· You simply want the ultimate in protection for your vehicles and want to maximize the life of the engine.
Installation and Maintenance Schedule for Trucking Fleets
Take an initial oil analysis on your existing oil in your vehicles when your normal oil change interval is up PRIOR to installing the ****** System.
This will give you a baseline reading and evaluate the condition of the engine so you have something to compare against once you have your *****
Bypass Filtration System installed. Installation of the ****** Bypass Filtration System on large trucks is typically on the frame of the engine
compartment OR on the frame behind or slightly in front of the fuel tank on the frame on the passenger side of the truck. Install the ****** unit on
the vehicle along with a fresh oil change and full flow filter change, change the ****** bypass filter every 15,000 miles and top up with oil. Take
periodic oil analysis readings to get an accurate gauge on the oils current conditions and let it be the barometer on when to finally change the oil
and full flow filter. The oil will likely come back good for at least 75,000 to 100,000 miles. Most people see 100,000 miles or more on the same oil.
Let the oil analysis be your gauge on when to change the oil. If your TAN/TBN numbers still look good and the viscosity and particle levels are
staying within spec, you can indefinitely keep the same oil in your vehicle.
|
|
|
Paul Turner
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 04:48 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Estimates for oil life after fitting are between 70 & 100k miles so would more than cover the cost of the kit in around 4 years assuming about 5k
miles a year or an oil change a year,
Never read such a load of bollocks.
Oil degrades as its circulated around the engine. Long life oil is designed to stay in grade longer but after the max change interval it still needs
changing. Water is present in used oil and as we know its not a good lubricant. No magic filter is going to restore the oil to the way it came out of
the can.
Every year I have to pay about £130 in VED, £130 in insurance, £20 break down (£60 for 4 cars), £40 for an MOT, £25 oil and filter and about £300 in
fuel for 2000 miles. Every few years I need a set of tyres and a brake fluid change, probably £40 a year averaged out. Then there are other costs,
this year I needed a fuel pump and a battery, averaged over say 8 years £15 a year. Don't use much in the way of pads and discs but they are
dirt cheap anyway. Total £555 a year.
Considering that good quality oil filter for my Zetec costs about £25 a change only an idiot would risk their engine to save £25 a year which is about
4.5% of annual costs.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
not forgetting the expected huge reduction on engine wear
Perhaps that should read "not forgetting the huge increase in engine wear that will be 100% certain to occur"
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy This allows the full flow filter to catch the large particles and the Bypass Filtration System to catch
particles down to 1-micron in size, all the water and acid, as well as the soot that will inevitably end up in the engine oil.
.
Never heard of this but is it just me who is wondering how a filter that traps 1 um particles can stop water molecules that are 0.275 nanometers in
size?
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 08:28 PM |
|
|
As mentioned, oil degrades in more ways than just getting dirty. Turbos break down stabilisers, combustion byproducts create acidic mixtures which
attack the metals. I've an intuitive feeling that these don't make any sense on a vehicle that does few miles and long change intervals.
Most engines these days cope quite happily for 250K miles without bearing wear related failure - by which time the UK climate has eaten the body
alive.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
hmm all good points worth considering
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 28/11/17 at 10:15 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Estimates for oil life after fitting are between 70 & 100k miles so would more than cover the cost of the kit in around 4 years assuming about 5k
miles a year or an oil change a year,
Never read such a load of bollocks.
Oil degrades as its circulated around the engine. Long life oil is designed to stay in grade longer but after the max change interval it still needs
changing. Water is present in used oil and as we know its not a good lubricant. No magic filter is going to restore the oil to the way it came out of
the can.
Every year I have to pay about £130 in VED, £130 in insurance, £20 break down (£60 for 4 cars), £40 for an MOT, £25 oil and filter and about £300 in
fuel for 2000 miles. Every few years I need a set of tyres and a brake fluid change, probably £40 a year averaged out. Then there are other costs,
this year I needed a fuel pump and a battery, averaged over say 8 years £15 a year. Don't use much in the way of pads and discs but they are
dirt cheap anyway. Total £555 a year.
Considering that good quality oil filter for my Zetec costs about £25 a change only an idiot would risk their engine to save £25 a year which is about
4.5% of annual costs.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
not forgetting the expected huge reduction on engine wear
Perhaps that should read "not forgetting the huge increase in engine wear that will be 100% certain to occur"
one thing to remember is although it states claims like the oil does not need changed at 70k - 100k it will not be the same oil that was there in the
first place.
All engines burn oil (also leak a lot in the case of Landy's) and will still need topping up quite regularly, oil consumption of large engines
is very significant. My Landy needs topped up a few times a year and it doesn't even smoke (well for a 80's truck anyway it's quite
good) so over time the oil will be replaced. As to whether I'd be happy never draining the oil for the next 20 years, not likely. All I'm
interested in is keeping the oil as clean as I can for £120 seems not too bad.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 03:48 AM |
|
|
I'm still not quite getting this, probably need to read the blurb again.
Oil and filter can be done for say £20 so an outlay of £120 is 6 or more years worth of changes depending on the annual mileage.
Surely a filter that traps finer particles, water and a ID (!?!) will clog up quicker so either needs to be be bigger or replaced more often. So how
much is the filter and how often is it replaced, that cost needs to be factored in.
Dunno but it all smells of magnets on a fuel line that doubles mpg and halve 0-60 times.
If you are a member of lr forums ask if anyone is using is this.
Also are any of the major car manufacturers using such a system?
[Edited on 29/11/17 by 02GF74]
|
|
|
JMW
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 08:30 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
Dunno but it all smells of magnets on a fuel line that doubles mpg and halve 0-60 times.
[Edited on 29/11/17 by 02GF74]
+1
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 08:38 AM |
|
|
Any independent data/research to back up the claims?
I suspect many of the claims just won't stand up to scrutiny.
Better off using a decent oil and filter and just change regularly.....
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 09:05 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Any independent data/research to back up the claims?
I suspect many of the claims just won't stand up to scrutiny.
Better off using a decent oil and filter and just change regularly.....
Ditto - regular oil and normal oil filter changes seem adequate to me.
02GF74 - you mention commercial vehicles using this additional filter system. By their nature commercial vehicles tend to do lots and lots of miles
and operators will be looking to minimise service cost and frequency (operating costs). I can understand (if such a thing really works) why the
manufacturers might choose to fit such devices. As you say normal car manufacturers are highly profit focused and therefore looking to minimise
manufacturing costs at all points. Cars have a pretty limited lifespan, mileage and price expectancy - I can see that manufacturers would not bother
with such things.
Out of interest what spec engine oil does your Landy take - being an older vehicle I'm guessing an older (thicker) spec oil?
|
|
|
Bluemoon
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 09:49 AM |
|
|
They do recommend "oil analysis" this is something we don't really have access to.. as mentioned above for high millage units such
as truck fleets they have a different problem to us and would have access to "oil analysis" due to the high value of the fleet and high
millages...
It might be possible to remove water via heating and condensing out the water, some bypass filters seem to have a heater so maybe they do remove
water? but what about acids? Anyway I would not go this way without having access to "oil analysis"... I have some contacts in Oxford Uni
R&D that have oil contamination measurement systems that work on live engines this is type of thing you need to see if it's actually working
it's more suited to jet engines!!
Dan
[Edited on 29/11/17 by Bluemoon]
|
|
|
Paul Turner
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 10:21 AM |
|
|
Just done a quick Google.
Millers do an oil analysis kit http://www.millersoils.co.uk/services/oil-analysis its £24.95. That is the same as an oil and filter change on my Zetec
using Motul oil from Opie and a quality Mahle filter.
If its says the oil is OK I have broken even.
If it says the oil is fecked I need to spend another £25 on an oil change and filter thus have doubled my costs.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 11:54 AM |
|
|
Well spoke to a few engineers at work who do servicing of large caterpillar type engines and some have been mechanics in the army too on truck and
tanks. Turns out these filters are actually quite common and do work just fine, pretty much doing exactly as advertised. However are really meant for
engines expected to be run for considerable periods such as heavy plant and trucks to improve oil quality and reduce changes, just as they stated
above tbh.
They think you can fit one to say your diesel car but would have to be doing large mileages to make it worth while over just regular oil changes, so
probably not very applicable to my Landy.
Interesting the great passion this topic has created though for something as simple as a £120 oil filter… don’t worry my penny’s are safe to be now
spent on some video games instead  
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 12:19 PM |
|
|
My information from B.P some years ago was that oil never loses it's lubricating qualities. Its the build up of all the gunge that stops the oil
from doing its job. Me personally, I like to drop the oil and filter once a year if only to get rid of the acid that builds up and eats away the
internal components....
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 12:52 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by redturner
My information from B.P some years ago was that oil never loses it's lubricating qualities. Its the build up of all the gunge that stops the oil
from doing its job. Me personally, I like to drop the oil and filter once a year if only to get rid of the acid that builds up and eats away the
internal components....
It's well known that some of the old motor oil left at recycling points is refined again/cleaned and then re-sold as new oil to be used all over
again. The issue with the acid is why I generally will change the oil prior to cars being off the road for long times though I think you can buy
specific oil for that purpose.
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 05:15 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by redturner
My information from B.P some years ago was that oil never loses it's lubricating qualities. Its the build up of all the gunge that stops the oil
from doing its job. Me personally, I like to drop the oil and filter once a year if only to get rid of the acid that builds up and eats away the
internal components....
My understanding, though, is that's a simplification, the base oil can be re-refined and extracted effectively. But you need to extract it from
the gunk (chemical and particulate) AND you'd need to replace the *additives* that give you, for example, the multi-grade viscosity capability
(i.e. what makes your oil "5-30", not just "5". Scrap oil is recycled, but it's not recycled into top end oil again,
in much the same way as a cat B write-off Ferrari can be stripped for parts which you might use on a kit car but it's not just polished up and
put back as a Ferrari.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 29/11/17 at 07:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Turns out these filters are actually quite common and do work just fine, pretty much doing exactly as advertised. However are really meant for
engines expected to be run for considerable periods such as heavy plant and trucks to improve oil quality and reduce changes, just as they stated
above tbh.
Was this part of the original engine I. E. Engine was designed for it or after market retrofit?
Will fitting one to your LR, which let's be honest isn't that bothered on what other is in there, affect the oil flow in the engine or
original filter, or put the oil pump under strain to cause it to fail prematurely.
|
|
|
robocog
|
| posted on 8/12/17 at 07:15 PM |
|
|
Think I have heard of these filters a long time ago
(use a bog roll by any chance?)
The name of the company escapes me - but I had a mate who looked into and managed to track one down and bought one (involving a very convoluted and
protracted story)
Not sure if he ever got round to fitting it and lost contact with him ages ago
The name is now bugging me and I expect it will come to me early hours of the morning when I should be sleeping or trying to work out how to
successfully prime the zetec's oil pump before I try to start it tomorrow (failed at getting any pressure or flow tonight)
Regards
Rob
"Frantz" - at least it didn't keep me awake
[Edited on 8/12/17 by robocog]
|
|
|
.JPG)
